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[11.42 --> 19.96]  on Linode servers. Head to linode.com slash Changelog. So welcome to the Apple special event
[19.96 --> 26.50]  October 30th, the day before Halloween. We have a live event from Apple in the Brooklyn area,
[26.50 --> 31.72]  Brooklyn Academy of Music at Howard Gilman Opera House. It was banging. It started out with an
[31.72 --> 37.56]  ode to New York that was super cool and I kind of missed a little bit of it. I'm just taking
[37.56 --> 44.54]  the note that was there from Tim. So Tim, why was it so cool? Why was this ode to New York City so cool
[44.54 --> 53.26]  to you? Well, I mean, I'm a lover of New York City. Of course. Because the city is just like,
[53.26 --> 62.08]  I don't know, I guess people like me romanticize what New York City is. The feel that you have in
[62.08 --> 68.32]  the city and the different sites of it. And I feel like that first video really did a good job of
[68.32 --> 75.46]  playing to that and kind of setting the stage basically of the fact that this event took place
[75.46 --> 81.72]  in New York. I can't disagree. Jerry, we were recently in New York together, man. Last November,
[81.86 --> 87.56]  actually. So close to this time frame too, which is, in my opinion, that was my first time to New
[87.56 --> 92.38]  York City. So I have to say it was the best time to go because the weather was so perfectly
[92.38 --> 97.18]  better than it would have been in Texas, which is typically humid and hot, at least here in Houston.
[97.18 --> 101.76]  I don't know about Omaha for you. I know you can kind of get colder there, but for me, it was a
[101.76 --> 108.80]  familiar change because of the missing of the fall air. I'm typically a Northeaster. I was from,
[108.94 --> 115.78]  still am from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. So for me, it was like going home, but to New York City and
[115.78 --> 120.44]  November, it's just before the Thanksgiving holidays. So you got all this stuff happening
[120.44 --> 126.78]  and the city definitely is a magical place. And it made me feel like I can be a better creative,
[126.90 --> 132.36]  just being in the city alone. Like the city has this beat, this hum, this buzz, this vibe
[132.36 --> 138.02]  that just speaks to creatives. And what better way to kick off this kind of thing for Apple than to do
[138.02 --> 143.20]  it in New York where you would introduce brand new Macs and new iPad Pros and all this new stuff
[143.20 --> 148.98]  that's for creatives, you know? Well, here's one reason why I think maybe it wasn't the best for
[148.98 --> 154.40]  creatives because... Always bringing it, Jerry. I love it. I always bring it to the other side.
[154.70 --> 162.44]  Always. Because 9 a.m. Central, which has to be minus one minute, at 7 a.m. Pacific time, I mean,
[163.02 --> 168.48]  creatives want to sleep. You know, we like our coffee in the morning. We like to ease into the day.
[168.48 --> 174.42]  I'm not claiming, I know what everybody's like, but I'm just saying our chat room was a little quieter
[174.42 --> 178.76]  than usual. I think that's because people are just kind of getting ready for their day. And then it's
[178.76 --> 184.82]  like, bam, Apple event right there. First thing. Yeah. I can't disagree with that.
[186.48 --> 189.82]  I think it's definitely the parts of it. I'm more of a morning person than you are, Adam. And you were
[189.82 --> 195.46]  here at 9 a.m. ready to listen. So I'm guessing you had to set an alarm or at least think about
[195.46 --> 200.64]  getting up. What was your routine? I just had to speed up my morning routine, really. I'm up early.
[200.64 --> 207.80]  I'm just not ready to work until like 10. 9.30, 10. You know, that's when my voice warms up. That's
[207.80 --> 215.26]  when my brain warms up. I need at least an hour to boot. It takes me a bit to get to full capacity.
[215.56 --> 223.94]  But today, you know, I went to bed earlier last night than my norm, which is good. And I woke up,
[223.94 --> 230.04]  I don't know, like eight ish, I guess. So I guess it's a little earlier for me, but it was worth it
[230.04 --> 236.92]  because, I mean, for one, we're at this call prepared. We had some notes in the background,
[236.92 --> 243.68]  which is great. We had live Apple nerds, hashtag channel and Slack. So if you're listening to this,
[244.46 --> 250.10]  either now live or in the future, we have a channel dedicated to Apple nerds. And it's,
[250.10 --> 255.94]  I don't know, Jared, I think you started this channel a while back and I was like, okay,
[256.16 --> 261.26]  I mean, I'm an Apple nerd too, but I never thought we'd actually have like deeper commentary in there
[261.26 --> 267.52]  because we've never traditionally been, you know, Apple fan boys or Apple fan people, so to speak.
[267.52 --> 273.10]  I mean, definitely users, but never like, we got to create content around Apple. As a matter of fact,
[273.10 --> 279.62]  this is the first time we're ever doing anything event-ish live alongside of Apple's events.
[279.62 --> 284.80]  This is the first for us. And we're doing a spotlight, which is great, but yeah,
[284.80 --> 289.46]  my mornings are typically a little later. You know what? In the, in the words of Gary Vaynerchuk,
[289.60 --> 296.64]  embrace who you are. If you're going to sleep in a little bit, kill it the rest of the hours of the
[296.64 --> 301.92]  day. And that's what I do. I work my face off when I'm up. Well, you're awake now. And I think,
[301.92 --> 307.62]  I would definitely woke up as soon as the announcement started because there was a whole bunch of stuff that
[307.62 --> 313.78]  was announced. Everything that, that was announced was exciting. The only kind of downer portion of
[313.78 --> 319.48]  the event for me, like where I lose interest and go start merging pull requests is during the Apple
[319.48 --> 324.60]  retail section, but that's just not my bag. But I want to say we haven't covered Apple in the past.
[325.80 --> 332.10]  Oh, you see what I did there with the, the, the bag? It's not my shopping cart. We haven't really
[332.10 --> 336.66]  covered too much of this stuff in the past. We definitely are internally users of Apple products
[336.66 --> 342.82]  for different things. Of course, we also use other manufacturers products that being said,
[343.32 --> 347.50]  and we know there's a lot of commentary around these events and around Apple in general,
[347.50 --> 353.72]  and we don't want to be a me too, or an also ran in that category. I think we want to bring a little
[353.72 --> 359.82]  bit different perspective because we are developers. We are podcasters, and we're really going to
[359.82 --> 366.86]  look at Apple's announcements through that lens, specifically developer focused commentary.
[367.48 --> 371.90]  Cause that's what we are and that's what we do. And because of that, I think this event
[371.90 --> 379.06]  got us three super excited more so than WWDC, even though I'm typically more of a software person
[379.06 --> 384.60]  than a hardware person. So I tend to get geeked about WWDC, but man, everything here, I'm just like,
[384.60 --> 392.44]  shut up and take my money. We need the hardware and we need, we need Apple to remain a company focused
[392.44 --> 398.58]  on hardware that delivers for creatives. And since we, since you just mentioned developer,
[399.14 --> 406.16]  it may jump the gun a little bit, but the shout out to one password, such a dedicated team to great
[406.16 --> 414.42]  software out of Canada, amazing team. They've, they've continued to be a number one must install
[414.42 --> 421.16]  application for literally all devices for me. So they got a shout out for that around the touch ID
[421.16 --> 426.16]  section, which is later for the MacBook Air. And I'm definitely jumping the gun, but that was pretty
[426.16 --> 432.44]  cool. Let's just say if one password were publicly traded, I'd buy their stock right now for sure.
[435.68 --> 439.96]  Got to let one password shout out to y'all for making awesome software. Let's talk about
[439.96 --> 444.52]  the event and what was announced. First of all, we'll just say up front MacBooks. If you haven't
[444.52 --> 452.58]  heard brand new MacBook, much, much anticipated, still selling a non-retina MacBook Air. Sorry,
[452.64 --> 458.82]  I said MacBook, but MacBook Air Mac mini, which was kind of the most amazing part. And then an iPad
[458.82 --> 463.72]  pro that is just like, holy cow, can I use that to write software? Because I need an excuse to buy
[463.72 --> 470.48]  that thing. But let's, let's start where Apple started with, with the Mac and with the MacBook
[470.48 --> 477.30]  Air. Who's got the stats open can, can give us the rundown of what all this device starting at
[477.30 --> 485.12]  $1,199 now. Tim, tell us, tell us about it. Oh, oh, shoot. I've, I'm caught off guard here, but,
[485.12 --> 497.46]  but yeah. So the MacBook Air comes in, in a whole new, uh, 100% recycled, uh, aluminum enclosure,
[497.46 --> 504.48]  which was to me, one of the biggest announcements, uh, that had to do with the MacBook Air and, and
[504.48 --> 509.98]  really all the, the, um, Mac announcements that they made. I don't think they, they said the same
[509.98 --> 516.08]  thing for the iPad, right? I think it was assumed. If they did, I missed it. They definitely called
[516.08 --> 521.52]  it out for the Mac mini and the MacBook Air. Yeah. Okay. I think that might be just a trend
[521.52 --> 526.88]  that they sort of just pointed back to, and the same recycled stuff, but I don't think they said
[526.88 --> 532.88]  explicitly now. What's cool about that though, is that it's, it's now, I would say a more sturdy body,
[532.88 --> 538.00]  um, than maybe previous generations. I don't know. It's an all new alloy. I mean,
[538.00 --> 546.36]  leave it to Apple to go to such great lengths to say that it's not only from fully recycled aluminum,
[546.36 --> 554.38]  but also a brand new alloy. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. And, and now the MacBook Air only comes in one,
[554.38 --> 564.98]  in, in one really option, the 13.3 inch led backlit display. Uh, I, you know, one of the,
[564.98 --> 572.14]  one of the notes here that, that was talked about was the, um, the bezel. Adam didn't seem to really
[572.14 --> 577.92]  think that the bezel shrunk enough. I, I disagree with that. I feel like this bezel,
[578.08 --> 586.52]  this new bezel is, is really thin. Um, I mean, uh, it, it looks very similar to all their, uh, you know,
[586.52 --> 592.74]  other MacBook bezels, which, uh, I mean, I don't know how they could shrink that bezel more.
[592.74 --> 598.86]  Okay. Fine. Fine. Listen, I disagree with my original agreement. Okay. Cause, cause that was
[598.86 --> 603.36]  based on, you disagree with yourself. I disagree with my original notes. I'm taking it. I'm taking
[603.36 --> 607.82]  it back. It was, it was premature. It was meant to be a future note, not a, not a declaration.
[608.50 --> 613.94]  However, I was bummed. It didn't seem like it shrunk much. That's why I put in quotes much.
[614.46 --> 618.44]  You quickly disagree, which I don't disagree with your disagreement, but, uh, in comparison,
[618.44 --> 624.66]  I did say that it also did shrink plenty, which is great because we always want less bezel around
[624.66 --> 631.78]  the screen. And you can see when they went from old to new, you know, the, the bezel shrunk
[631.78 --> 638.24]  significantly. Plus the original or the previous generation was, uh, was a silver color, you know,
[638.24 --> 643.34]  around it. So you always had to compete with where the screen was. And I like now how the,
[643.42 --> 648.28]  it's become a standard of having the black bezel around the screen. That's the best way to go.
[648.28 --> 656.80]  Regardless of what color you choose of a device, whether it's a 10 S max or a 10 S or whatever,
[657.54 --> 661.56]  the, the black bezel, my opinion, they've given other colors, they've had white, they've had rose
[661.56 --> 666.90]  gold, they've had others for different devices. And I think when you put that black bezel around a
[666.90 --> 674.88]  screen, it's the best way to do it. Yeah, I agree. Now they also brought in touch ID to the MacBook
[674.88 --> 681.88]  air, which is, which is awesome. I, I want touch ID everywhere, to be honest with you. Um, I wish
[681.88 --> 687.10]  that there was a way for them to put touch ID in like, you know, their, their Bluetooth connected
[687.10 --> 691.94]  keyboards, but I understand that that's, you know, from an engineering standpoint, that's probably,
[691.94 --> 697.30]  yeah. Okay. So here's one thing I want to say on this part here that I know this is new. Do either
[697.30 --> 704.84]  of you own an Apple watch yet? Yes. Yeah. Okay. The unlock feature from the Apple watch to any Mac
[704.84 --> 710.50]  is amazing. It's pretty great. Right. Yeah. I kind of prefer that over the touch. I'd like to connect
[710.50 --> 717.82]  and be me to the watch and let the watch act as me. So sans touch ID. However, I do agree that
[717.82 --> 725.58]  it is pretty cool to have touch ID. So here's the, here's the big point I think with regards to
[725.58 --> 732.32]  this particular feature is that on the MacBook air, the brand new MacBook air, which is not a pro
[732.32 --> 742.56]  device, it has touch ID in the keyboard and it also has a hardware escape button. So there's no touch
[742.56 --> 747.74]  bar. They've just put the touch ID in there, which is kind of what we all really wanted in the
[747.74 --> 753.40]  first place for the pros and a hardware escape button. So I think a lot of developers, especially
[753.40 --> 758.80]  us Vim users, although I have adjusted to the touch bars escape, I just basically tap it like
[758.80 --> 762.46]  three times now instead of once. This is not the same though. Just to make sure that I, yeah,
[762.46 --> 768.96]  you can't really, you just can't get the satisfaction of like just drilling escape in anger like you can
[768.96 --> 773.70]  with the hardware button. Yeah. I think this makes it very attractive for developers,
[773.70 --> 780.88]  especially Vim users because they don't lose their beloved escape key and get the advantage of touch
[780.88 --> 786.68]  ID. Although I admit with the Apple watch, I use a touch ID less than previously. That being said,
[786.72 --> 793.80]  it is nice for Apple pay and for points where the, the watch doesn't work. Like they'll,
[793.90 --> 798.54]  they'll request a fallback authentication. Almost zero. Yeah. It's almost reduced it to zero for the
[798.54 --> 803.70]  touch ID. If you've authenticated, you know, originally you have to start with your password
[803.70 --> 811.70]  and then you can use touch ID from that point on similar to when you restart a phone with similar,
[811.82 --> 816.80]  like, and now it's face ID where before it was touch ID. The cool thing on the developer front too,
[816.80 --> 824.96]  is the accessibility 1200 bucks, 1199. This is starting price. I mean, most developers or even brand new
[824.96 --> 830.98]  people who want to come into the software world, but that's an approachable price, right? I mean,
[832.16 --> 839.72]  several thousand dollars for a MacBook pro is not, whereas this is like, it's pretty much all you
[839.72 --> 846.94]  need and you get the tactile escape key as you said you need not totally agree. I've, I've embraced
[846.94 --> 853.40]  the touch bar. I don't love it, but I think it's kind of cool. It has future opportunities.
[853.40 --> 857.60]  I started to find like, it's taken me about a year, but I've started to find specific use cases.
[857.60 --> 863.48]  Like I like the emoji picker. There's certain things where I like to, I like if you're watching
[863.48 --> 867.96]  YouTube and you go into full screen mode or something, you still have access to the scrubber
[867.96 --> 872.22]  via the touch bar. There are just certain things that took me, like it took me a year, maybe nine
[872.22 --> 877.92]  months before I used it for anything except for angrily hitting escape. But it's starting to slowly
[877.92 --> 882.50]  like work its way into my life in ways that I could definitely live without, but in ways that I think are
[882.50 --> 891.08]  additive and not just subtracting. What's the entry level MacBook pro price? I'm trying to grab it.
[891.10 --> 896.14]  Cause we were talking about accessibility in terms of affording a device like this. I mean,
[896.20 --> 902.30]  1200 bucks, which is the entry level new MacBook air still isn't super affordable. I mean, still a
[902.30 --> 906.58]  high end starting price. Yeah. Especially now that they have a Mac mini that starts at 800, you can,
[906.66 --> 911.32]  you know, cobble together an old screen and a keyboard and you have an even, even cheaper way in
[911.32 --> 920.74]  to development, but definitely a cheap way at 1290 or 1199, a nice price, but it's not like you can't
[920.74 --> 925.74]  get into development for cheaper. Right. Adam, there's tons of other devices you could do.
[926.08 --> 932.04]  Right. The entry level MacBook pro, which is a 2.3 dual core processor, all the specs, whatever 1299.
[932.24 --> 937.34]  So we're talking about a hundred bucks more. Yeah. And actually comparing those prices as an entry
[937.34 --> 949.92]  level. Um, one that doesn't include, that's the older, uh, model 13 inch that's sans the touch bar.
[950.14 --> 955.40]  So you're not getting the latest gen. So if you, if you look at it and you say, well, give me the
[955.40 --> 963.18]  latest gen MacBook pro at the cheapest price. I think we're looking at 1799. That's the latest
[963.18 --> 969.24]  quad core processor, eight generation versus seventh. It's still an i5 processor, but you know,
[969.24 --> 978.18]  when you go over to the air being 1199, it's just, it's an accessible price. Yeah.
[978.86 --> 987.10]  I really do think that this, this computer feels like the ideal portable developer machine,
[987.10 --> 995.36]  because the, the specs seem to be just right for what you would need to, to do most development,
[995.36 --> 1005.00]  um, you know, web and, and software at least. And, uh, the, the, the size of this thing
[1005.00 --> 1011.70]  is just wonderful. I think, didn't it say that it weighs like something like 2.75 pounds. I mean,
[1011.70 --> 1020.32]  that's, that's just crazy to me. Um, it, I love, yeah, I love that it has two Thunderbolt,
[1020.86 --> 1026.24]  two Thunderbolt three ports, so you can hook it up to an external display if you want to.
[1027.24 --> 1032.76]  Um, and, and I also, I love that they're doing the, the three different colors, you know,
[1032.84 --> 1038.42]  especially space gray. I, I wish they'd, they'd make something matte black, but you know,
[1038.42 --> 1044.96]  I'll take space gray. So you're, you're also, Tim, you left this note for the Thunderbolt ports here,
[1044.98 --> 1050.66]  which was glad they did this instead of USB-C. Yeah. MacBook, which I totally agree. Cause like,
[1050.66 --> 1055.36]  if you're going to give me USB-C and not Thunderbolt three on a Mac, I'm going to punch you.
[1056.98 --> 1062.50]  Okay. Seriously. Like who wants three, you know, USB 3.0 speeds or 3.1 speeds or whatever,
[1062.50 --> 1067.64]  like give me Thunderbolt three options or I'm super angry. Like don't even give me the peripheral.
[1067.64 --> 1071.40]  At that point, just take it away. Yeah. And that's why I say.
[1071.40 --> 1073.76]  Plugging in that you would like the Thunderbolt. Drives.
[1074.88 --> 1081.58]  Yeah. Drives. Drives and displays. Yeah. I guess, yeah. Drives and displays are multiple displays. I
[1081.58 --> 1090.42]  mean, you don't want to plug in any drive, uh, that has Thunderbolt three at USB 3.1 speeds.
[1090.42 --> 1095.58]  You just don't. In most pro cases, you're doing a raid setup.
[1097.18 --> 1105.06]  And the point of it is, is access to an external drive that has a much more expandability at a
[1105.06 --> 1111.00]  cheaper than Apple price point with speed. That's the point. And if you take that away,
[1111.04 --> 1112.82]  it's like, just, you should have kept it.
[1112.82 --> 1118.16]  I definitely agree. It's good to have it in there. I think for our MacBook air for entry
[1118.16 --> 1124.22]  level MacBook air, which is now aside from the new Mac mini is I think the cheapest way into
[1124.22 --> 1128.80]  an Apple laptop, besides going back, you know, previous models are buying used.
[1129.28 --> 1133.28]  I could see where it, I mean, it's, it's awesome that they put it in there and maybe it's didn't
[1133.28 --> 1137.66]  cost them any extra to do the Thunderbolt versus just the typical USB 3.1.
[1137.66 --> 1142.16]  I think it comes down to the motherboard really is what enables that. So I think,
[1142.48 --> 1146.36]  you know, I'm not sure what the, what they have to do to engineer that, but it comes down to
[1146.36 --> 1152.70]  the bus and the motherboard speed and all the things that has to do in addition to say,
[1152.80 --> 1159.94]  faster battery life, room for better speakers, all this space that just get munged into this 13.3
[1159.94 --> 1165.52]  inch, you know, brand new aluminum alloy, a hundred percent recycled boom, whatever, you know,
[1165.52 --> 1170.62]  like you got a lot to shove in there. And I, I agree. I'm really glad that they,
[1170.70 --> 1175.10]  they did whatever was necessary because I can't imagine what it is. I'm not that level of smart,
[1175.26 --> 1181.88]  but I do appreciate it because that's critical, critical. Like this machine MacBook air,
[1182.02 --> 1186.52]  in my opinion is probably, I almost regret buying a MacBook pro.
[1187.28 --> 1192.52]  Let me throw out a few more stats in agreement with Tim on the kind of the idea that this might be
[1192.52 --> 1198.58]  the ultimate in portable development environments, uh, aside unless you want to get something that's,
[1198.58 --> 1203.16]  you know, in the super low price range, cause it's still 1200 bucks. It's not super low, but,
[1203.60 --> 1209.76]  uh, like Tim said, 2.75 pounds, crazy light, which is 70, 17% smaller than the previous
[1209.76 --> 1214.92]  MacBook air, which was the skinniest thing they made anyways in laptop size. That being said,
[1214.92 --> 1218.94]  I was wondering like, are they going to keep the air moniker because the MacBook pros are so small
[1218.94 --> 1225.92]  now is the MacBook air actually feel like it's airy. And I think, I think 2.75 pounds says yes.
[1226.52 --> 1233.64]  Uh, but the all day battery life, uh, interestingly, 13 hours of movie playback and 12 hours of web
[1233.64 --> 1240.50]  browsing playback, which is crazy town. Right. So the web is just, Oh, come on web devs. Like we're
[1240.50 --> 1245.78]  just killing people's batteries out there. And you know, we know that we have GPU and other, uh,
[1245.78 --> 1251.56]  specific playback encodings on chips and stuff. So they're, they're optimizing video playback.
[1251.56 --> 1257.08]  Whereas the web just does its thing. I didn't notice that actually. That's a good, uh, good
[1257.08 --> 1260.90]  point that. Yeah. You get an extra hour if you're watching movies versus if you're browsing the web,
[1261.20 --> 1264.98]  maybe they should do that test with an ad blocker on and you'll probably get a lot more,
[1264.98 --> 1273.04]  a lot more web browsing, but is that video on YouTube? Cause that is the web. If you're at least
[1273.04 --> 1278.30]  if you had a browser open up, you know, because there's no native YouTube app. That's true.
[1278.98 --> 1283.58]  I would, I would, yeah, I would think that when they say video playback, they're, they're talking
[1283.58 --> 1289.38]  about like their native. Yeah. Yeah. Something inside of, yeah, exactly. Well, I would say that's
[1289.38 --> 1297.20]  such a more controllable environment, right? Like you can control the H264, H265 codecs so much easier
[1297.20 --> 1304.56]  than you can, you know, anybody can create it on the web web. Sure. Even, even then though,
[1304.74 --> 1311.50]  even if they were talking about YouTube, I don't think that that number would be like, it would be a,
[1311.50 --> 1317.78]  a, a more drastic cog on your battery necessarily because my only concern would be ads is the
[1317.78 --> 1322.34]  rotation of ads. If you're like a non-premium YouTube user, you're going to have ads, you're
[1322.34 --> 1328.62]  going to have other things happening inside the playback, which is like the smart clickable
[1328.62 --> 1335.76]  options and just like different things that would change the, to a more dynamic video than
[1335.76 --> 1342.70]  say just a straight through codec. Sure. But still those things are like hyper optimized,
[1342.70 --> 1351.02]  you know, and you can listen to music much. I said the way and the web is not, that's the
[1351.02 --> 1356.04]  moral of the story. Yeah. Yeah. Is music an important feature for you when you have
[1356.04 --> 1362.30]  playback with a device like that? Are you listening to much music from your actual MacBook speakers?
[1363.80 --> 1369.80]  Not me personally. I mean, they're, I mean, they're AirPods or most of the music I listen to is on my
[1369.80 --> 1375.58]  iPhone, which is next to me. Right. I mean, I do, I do turn on music on the Mac and I guess I listen
[1375.58 --> 1379.96]  to other speakers, but I just, it's usually background noise. So it's not like a huge concern, but if they can get
[1379.96 --> 1384.74]  a lot louder, that's always nice. They have the hi-fi speakers. I miss most of that section, but
[1384.74 --> 1389.80]  I'm not sure what all that entails, but they're, the speakers are better than the previous generation.
[1389.92 --> 1396.46]  I would say that the speakers are good in the cases of when you're doing conferencing with people,
[1396.46 --> 1401.90]  because that's where maybe you have headphones on. You don't have to, because they have noise
[1401.90 --> 1406.68]  canceling and like, you know, what comes out of the speakers and go back into the mic kind of
[1406.68 --> 1412.00]  situation. So hearing people better when you're on the road, which is the whole point of a laptop,
[1412.64 --> 1418.62]  right? Is there a, in this case, a MacBook, right? You gotta be on brand, you know, is that you can
[1418.62 --> 1424.16]  actually hear something, maybe have your AirPods on, maybe have headphones on since it does actually
[1424.16 --> 1428.38]  have the headphone jack, which we haven't mentioned. They could have maybe gone a little thinner,
[1428.38 --> 1435.84]  I guess if they remove that, which they seem to refuse to do on their, their hardware. I mean,
[1435.88 --> 1444.94]  kudos to them because I still use it. But to me, like if I had to take, if I had to buy a brand new
[1444.94 --> 1452.08]  machine today that was like, okay, Adam, take this thing and it's your to go studio, right? Maybe you
[1452.08 --> 1457.86]  could do some development on, of course, to go studio, run audition. I don't do much in Photoshop
[1457.86 --> 1464.14]  these days. I couldn't, I think based on the specs alone, and I'm just assuming here, I could buy a
[1464.14 --> 1469.70]  MacBook air and still take it with me and do all the necessary audio creative things we do. Yep. As
[1469.70 --> 1475.14]  well as the development creative things we do here at Changing. So, I mean, this would be an all-in-one
[1475.14 --> 1481.84]  machine. I do think you would only go MacBook pro if you wanted to have like so much more RAM,
[1482.00 --> 1486.56]  so much more processing power. I was going to say the real sticky point is the RAM. So it maxes out at 16
[1486.56 --> 1492.68]  gigabytes of RAM, which you can definitely get buy on. But in 2018, for a brand new development
[1492.68 --> 1500.12]  environment, you may think, eh, 32 is really going to feel better. The SSD is fine up to 1.5 terabytes.
[1500.24 --> 1506.44]  That's plenty for me as a developer. Maybe if you're not recording, you know, 4K video and using it
[1506.44 --> 1510.72]  in and out, but you probably have external drives at that point. Right. So I think I would ask,
[1510.72 --> 1515.88]  I was wondering, like, could I do everything I do on this device? And I would say yes,
[1515.88 --> 1521.54]  with the caveat of I might want more RAM. And then secondly, even my MacBook pro, honestly,
[1521.62 --> 1529.00]  I have a 13 inch MacBook pro last year's model. Even it, the processor gets taxed when I'm doing,
[1529.16 --> 1534.36]  not when I'm developing, except for during compiling and tests, of course. But it's like
[1534.36 --> 1538.58]  when I'm streaming and stuff, like if I'm trying to stream to Twitch and keep a Skype call going
[1538.58 --> 1543.18]  and like doing these different things, that's when my MacBook pro can't handle it. And I think,
[1543.26 --> 1546.76]  man, I just need something beefier. I need a Mac pro or iMac pro.
[1547.00 --> 1551.54]  Describe can't handle it. Is this the fans or is it like, it's, it's literally like my CPU is like
[1551.54 --> 1556.72]  chilling at like 85, 90, 100% and my fans are going off and my hands are, my hands are sweating
[1556.72 --> 1558.42]  because I'm on the keyboard.
[1558.54 --> 1559.52]  The heat's coming from it.
[1559.96 --> 1560.32]  Yeah.
[1560.44 --> 1561.26]  The heat is on it.
[1561.38 --> 1564.38]  I got to take my t-shirt off. Otherwise I start to, you know, pit out.
[1564.40 --> 1564.92]  Come on now.
[1565.24 --> 1565.64]  Keep it friendly.
[1565.64 --> 1567.88]  Okay. All right. That's, that's, that's how verbally.
[1568.58 --> 1569.80]  Paint a picture.
[1570.16 --> 1575.90]  I do think though, if, if the, if the MacBook Air isn't your primary machine,
[1575.90 --> 1583.86]  it is, it is ideal for, for what Adam just explained. Like, like as a, as a conference
[1583.86 --> 1587.10]  going machine, it's perfect.
[1587.48 --> 1587.90]  Absolutely.
[1588.08 --> 1588.68]  It's perfect.
[1589.50 --> 1593.40]  And I should also caveat that I'm chilling on 16 gigs of RAM on this machine as well.
[1593.40 --> 1598.16]  So I know what that feels like. And it's definitely like I can suffer it. There's times where I think
[1598.16 --> 1605.34]  I'm, I'm swapping. I haven't seen it swap, but for the most part, it's fine. It's not ideal,
[1605.48 --> 1606.02]  but it's fine.
[1607.16 --> 1607.56]  Yeah.
[1607.56 --> 1613.52]  The mobility, the portability. I mean, the thing is sexy as all get out. I love the way it looks.
[1613.52 --> 1615.92]  I think it's an excellent developer device.
[1619.00 --> 1624.74]  Tim, you asked, I think in the notes of our doc, does the new MacBook Pro even have the T2 security
[1624.74 --> 1629.54]  chip? And it does. So they're definitely bringing home there to me. They didn't spare any expense.
[1630.14 --> 1637.52]  It doesn't seem, it seems like they, they, I would imagine, I would want to scrutinize the
[1637.52 --> 1642.50]  profitability level of this machine for them because they put so much into it. And Apple
[1642.50 --> 1647.38]  is typically known for high margins and that's what makes them a likable stock from the mainstream
[1647.38 --> 1653.04]  stock market arena. Not much of a developer conversation for sure, but you know, you got
[1653.04 --> 1658.58]  a sustainability is. So in that case, I would be curious to know what their margins are on this
[1658.58 --> 1664.78]  because they really have like put so much into it. And they've even given us way more by saying,
[1664.78 --> 1669.06]  okay, you've definitely revolted against the touch bar. We'll take it away, but we'll still
[1669.06 --> 1677.66]  give you a touch ID. T2 security chip, decent RAM, decent CPU, all day battery life, you know,
[1677.74 --> 1685.32]  smaller, thinner, lighter, aluminum alloy, you know, all these things crammed into this
[1685.32 --> 1691.34]  machine. It's like they said, you love this machine. Fine. We're going to keep it. We're
[1691.34 --> 1694.72]  going to put everything we can into it. And we're going to love you back and give it to you
[1694.72 --> 1700.70]  for $1,200. We're going to love you back. We're anthropomorphizing quite a bit there.
[1701.14 --> 1706.46]  Well, I mean, people have been buying this machine, even sans retina because they love
[1706.46 --> 1707.06]  us so much.
[1707.68 --> 1715.36]  Are you, are you lonely? Do you need love? Buy a MacBook Air. It'll love you back. That's
[1715.36 --> 1716.88]  maybe you should work for their sales team.
[1717.56 --> 1718.32]  Maybe so.
[1718.72 --> 1722.76]  Just messing with you. So here, maybe it changes the question. So I think the question I've
[1722.76 --> 1728.10]  always asked myself when buying a new laptop is, can I get away with a MacBook Air? And
[1728.10 --> 1733.50]  I think maybe the question now is like, why buy a MacBook Pro versus why not buy a MacBook
[1733.50 --> 1738.72]  Air? Because I think this is the starting point for any decision. If you're already deciding
[1738.72 --> 1743.14]  to go Mac OS and well, maybe do I need them? Do I need portability? Cause then you might
[1743.14 --> 1749.54]  go Mac mini at this point, but for laptops, Apple laptops, the question is why buy the Pro?
[1749.54 --> 1751.18]  What am I getting there?
[1751.34 --> 1756.52]  Oh, here you go. I'm going to go fully spec out a MacBook Air, like give it everything
[1756.52 --> 1761.40]  it can. Max it out. It maxes at $2,599.
[1762.06 --> 1763.10]  Woo. Still expensive.
[1763.32 --> 1767.54]  Still expensive, but that's 16 grand or 16 grams, 16 gigabytes of RAM.
[1767.54 --> 1775.98]  Uh, 1.5. Why the 1.5 weird 1.5 of SSD storage. And that's how you can tweak is just memory
[1775.98 --> 1782.74]  and storage. You can't tweak CPU. You're getting a 1.6 dual core eighth generation core i5 with
[1782.74 --> 1788.04]  turbo boost up to 3.6 gigahertz. It's decent. It's common. It's, it's common that lineup.
[1788.04 --> 1796.26]  I mean, I think the other reason you would go to a MacBook Pro would simply be to tweak your CPU.
[1796.42 --> 1800.94]  Maybe you need those CPUs, need more cores, more than dual core, you know, you need four, you know,
[1801.12 --> 1807.04]  quad core or, you know, whatever further up. That would be the reason why is you need more CPU.
[1807.04 --> 1814.82]  So on the 13 inch MacBook Pro maxed out, it's 3,700 and you're still only at 16 gigabytes of RAM.
[1814.94 --> 1820.56]  That just seems like, what's the point? I maxed one of those out. What about the 15 inch?
[1821.74 --> 1822.66]  I think things change.
[1822.68 --> 1825.30]  Don't need to max that thing out, gosh. I think it's really expensive.
[1825.72 --> 1825.74]  Yeah.
[1826.46 --> 1828.90]  The 15 can go up to 32, isn't it?
[1829.46 --> 1835.28]  Well, you can get almost $7,000, $6699 for a totally maxed out 15 inch.
[1835.50 --> 1835.94]  Yeah.
[1835.94 --> 1835.98]  Yeah.
[1835.98 --> 1839.92]  But the difference there.
[1839.92 --> 1844.32]  And I think at that point you've got like 64 gigabytes of RAM. I want to say.
[1845.32 --> 1845.72]  Yeah.
[1845.86 --> 1846.96]  With the 15 inch model.
[1847.24 --> 1847.56]  32.
[1848.32 --> 1848.72]  32.
[1849.68 --> 1850.16]  Mm-hmm.
[1850.46 --> 1851.64]  So you can go 32 there.
[1851.72 --> 1853.84]  I thought with 15 inch, you could go up to.
[1855.38 --> 1859.08]  Doesn't seem so. 32 gigs is the max, at least on their options here.
[1859.46 --> 1861.86]  You are getting the upgraded Radeon Pro.
[1861.86 --> 1866.40]  I think this is truly for somebody that's graphics intensive.
[1867.20 --> 1878.74]  I wouldn't recommend a MacBook Air to somebody who's really kicking it on Photoshop or into any sort of like 3D Max or anything that's, that's just, you know, really GPU heavy.
[1878.74 --> 1880.98]  Maybe, you know, many more monitors.
[1880.98 --> 1887.32]  I'm assuming this, at least on the monitor front, it may be able to be capable for like dual 5K monitors or something like that.
[1887.32 --> 1893.20]  But anything I would say video, video people are not going to be grabbing this MacBook Air.
[1893.60 --> 1894.78]  They're going to try.
[1894.78 --> 1908.32]  But I think, I think they may, they may have it for say, somebody who is on the video team that needs to do some stuff occasionally that, that can be okay with puttering here and there.
[1908.90 --> 1913.40]  But yeah, you could do, you could do a quick edit on, on the MacBook Air.
[1913.68 --> 1914.06]  Yeah.
[1914.12 --> 1918.68]  I mean, you know, you're going to embrace it, but a daily machine, you're like, man, this sucks.
[1918.68 --> 1922.84]  I spent the extra, you know, grand or two maybe to get something that's more capable.
[1922.84 --> 1924.48]  But that's what I'm saying.
[1924.58 --> 1935.40]  Like, like we were, like we were talking about before, you know, as a, as a portable conference going machine, like, you know, in for, for what we do.
[1935.64 --> 1941.76]  I mean, we could totally do a quick edit of, of a video on, on this, you know, on location.
[1942.36 --> 1942.48]  Yeah.
[1942.48 --> 1947.56]  So it makes it an affordable can also kind of machine, but not daily.
[1948.04 --> 1952.38]  Definitely, you know, affordable on that front, affordable on the weight front.
[1952.84 --> 1953.44]  Yeah.
[1953.44 --> 1968.10]  And I would even venture to say that maybe our AI folks, machine learning folks are saying this air is probably great for me too, because you still have the necessary USB-C Thunderbolt three ports.
[1968.10 --> 1977.52]  So I can eGPU it externally still yet and still get a, you know, for better or worse, $1,200 machine and still go eGPU and add on things.
[1977.66 --> 1985.04]  I'm assuming the IO is there for those external ML tasks that, you know, this is still a dev friendly machine.
[1985.04 --> 1985.92]  Mm-hmm.
[1986.00 --> 1993.46]  Not to mention at this point, a lot of the real heavy machine learning deals you can run on an EC2 instance or on Azure.
[1993.64 --> 1993.84]  True.
[1994.02 --> 1997.14]  You know, the real heavy lifting, you usually don't run it on your laptop anyhow.
[1997.14 --> 1999.36]  And so you're just accessing the results.
[1999.36 --> 2001.68]  And for that, you're, you're in good company here.
[2003.18 --> 2007.58]  Maybe we should move on to a part two, because we could probably talk about the MacBook Air all day.
[2007.86 --> 2008.56]  Mac mini.
[2008.56 --> 2010.18]  But come on, the Mac mini.
[2010.36 --> 2011.78]  It's been five years?
[2012.14 --> 2012.70]  Four years?
[2013.52 --> 2014.28]  Too long.
[2014.60 --> 2015.10]  Too long.
[2015.28 --> 2015.62]  Seriously.
[2015.80 --> 2016.96]  It seriously has been too long.
[2017.04 --> 2028.16]  I mean, as an owner of many, many generations, current owner of four, as a matter of fact, we're speaking right now through a few MacBook minis, or sorry, Mac minis.
[2029.58 --> 2035.68]  We use them as Skype machines every single day to do live broadcasts and to do our recording.
[2035.68 --> 2039.32]  It's part of a system that just works for us.
[2039.44 --> 2045.40]  So we have networked Mac minis for them that all feedback into our multi-channel interface.
[2045.90 --> 2047.90]  They're essentially Skype machines.
[2048.16 --> 2050.82]  I call them cloud microphones, basically, because that's what it is.
[2050.86 --> 2052.22]  Each one is a cloud microphone.
[2053.12 --> 2060.26]  You know, it allows me to connect people in the cloud to hear locally as a local mic via, you know, the audio in and out.
[2060.26 --> 2066.78]  So if it weren't for those machines, our setup would be just a little less professional.
[2067.04 --> 2067.58]  Let's just say.
[2068.40 --> 2074.22]  I don't think we don't really need to upgrade to a Mac mini or to this newest version.
[2074.22 --> 2078.82]  I don't think our needs in that case need this new Mac mini.
[2079.50 --> 2091.04]  However, for anyone holding on to who's bought the oldest trash can possible Mac Pro and just kept it because, you know, it does look sexy.
[2091.12 --> 2092.44]  It is a very nice machine.
[2092.44 --> 2103.74]  And you've kept it or you've desired to keep it or desire to go back onto the market of eBay and buy one because you don't want to buy the non-existent Mac Pro now.
[2103.74 --> 2112.32]  And you want Pro type server related stuff that the Mac mini of today prior to today, real today, couldn't handle.
[2112.48 --> 2116.12]  Then you probably either went Hackintosh.
[2116.26 --> 2123.82]  You probably went PC and you're not too good to flavorless in our show because the Mac mini just didn't compete for you.
[2124.60 --> 2127.50]  Or you pushed the Mac mini and you just bought two versus one.
[2127.58 --> 2127.98]  I don't know.
[2128.16 --> 2131.40]  But the current Mac mini is pretty freaking awesome.
[2131.40 --> 2134.86]  So let's talk about what was announced.
[2135.48 --> 2137.28]  Yeah, of the specs.
[2137.44 --> 2139.56]  So it starts with four cores.
[2140.08 --> 2142.50]  You can go up to six cores.
[2142.92 --> 2147.96]  This, to me, feels like Apple is listening to its customers.
[2148.32 --> 2152.72]  I was shocked that it starts with four cores.
[2153.00 --> 2155.64]  Also, Space Gray, amazing.
[2156.14 --> 2158.72]  Again, I would love matte black, but I'll settle for Space Gray.
[2158.72 --> 2158.76]  Okay.
[2160.68 --> 2162.36]  64 gigabytes of memory.
[2162.78 --> 2165.26]  Now, can someone explain to me what SODIMS mean?
[2167.00 --> 2167.40]  No.
[2167.50 --> 2168.62]  Somebody who's not named Jared.
[2170.48 --> 2173.06]  He did make a point of saying it's got SODIMS.
[2173.32 --> 2175.38]  So I'm sure all of those out there know what that is, but I don't.
[2175.38 --> 2176.10]  Okay.
[2176.24 --> 2178.98]  Because I didn't understand what that was all about.
[2179.16 --> 2179.34]  All right.
[2179.40 --> 2181.74]  So it starts with 256 SSD.
[2182.28 --> 2184.74]  You can go up to two terabytes.
[2184.96 --> 2197.64]  Also has the T2 security chip, which I'm wondering, like, I guess I always felt that the T2 chip was mostly for Touch ID, but I guess it's not.
[2197.64 --> 2201.38]  It also does some encryption on the drives.
[2202.06 --> 2202.54]  Right.
[2203.82 --> 2206.32]  To rewind, although I can explain the SODIMS.
[2208.26 --> 2210.98]  I'm over here on Wikipedia also looking up SODIMS.
[2211.12 --> 2218.80]  I was mentioning just simply because, you know, I'm assuming it's of similar speed, but not of similar size.
[2218.80 --> 2226.90]  So when you talk about the DIMS that go in for the RAM, then the SODIM, they call it small outline, dual inline memory module.
[2227.14 --> 2233.50]  It's the type that can be just a small alternative to the typical DIMS that you put into, say, maybe a laptop.
[2233.82 --> 2240.18]  Those might even, you may be, you may see some laptops out there pushing it and doing the SODIMS in there.
[2240.66 --> 2247.22]  But in probably most cases, you're going with probably just full DIMS, if that's the case.
[2248.04 --> 2248.48]  Okay.
[2248.48 --> 2253.64]  So the SODIMS is based on a smaller version of what's typically known as RAM.
[2254.24 --> 2254.52]  Okay.
[2254.72 --> 2255.60]  Form factor-wise, at least.
[2255.76 --> 2256.80]  But your question was?
[2259.18 --> 2263.52]  Well, I wanted to know what SODIMS was, so you answered that.
[2263.66 --> 2264.20]  Good, good.
[2264.62 --> 2270.32]  So they're basically just like regular RAM DIMS, but they're half the size, and so they fit better in the smaller spaces, like in the Mac Mini.
[2270.50 --> 2272.46]  I don't know why customers would care so much.
[2272.54 --> 2274.64]  Maybe they're popping them open and replacing them.
[2274.72 --> 2275.08]  I don't know.
[2275.08 --> 2280.74]  Yeah, I think that's definitely mentioned as an earmark for, hey, if you plan to crack this open, you're going to deal with SODIMS.
[2280.74 --> 2280.92]  Yeah.
[2280.92 --> 2283.06]  And I'm assuming you can crack it open.
[2283.14 --> 2289.24]  I'm also assuming, based on this conversation, or at least they've shown so far, that the form factor hasn't changed.
[2289.24 --> 2305.14]  Because one thing that would really check my butt is if the form factor of the new Mac Mini changes so much that you couldn't use all of the existing, listen, all the existing rack mount options out there for Mac Mini currently.
[2305.90 --> 2305.92]  Yeah.
[2306.14 --> 2308.72]  That would, so many people, we never cares on this show.
[2308.82 --> 2310.20]  Gosh, I don't even know why I'm saying that.
[2310.46 --> 2312.84]  It would severely upset people.
[2312.94 --> 2314.30]  Let's use a more friendly term.
[2314.30 --> 2314.54]  Yeah.
[2315.26 --> 2316.90]  And we'll bleed that one out if we can.
[2316.90 --> 2325.84]  But it would because in most cases, sure, you want to get this as a bring your own monitor, bring your own keyboard kind of machine.
[2326.24 --> 2326.68]  Yeah.
[2326.68 --> 2336.30]  You know, from a price point, even more approachable, maybe even more dev-friendly, even more brand new dev-friendly, potentially at $799 open price.
[2336.88 --> 2337.18]  Yeah.
[2337.40 --> 2337.76]  You know what I mean?
[2337.80 --> 2340.04]  Like, that's a good price.
[2340.04 --> 2340.96]  It's better than $1,200.
[2341.94 --> 2342.42]  Yeah.
[2342.76 --> 2342.96]  Right?
[2342.96 --> 2355.70]  I also love that they talked about the thermal, you know, thermal flow, because that's a big deal, especially for me on, like, my MacBook.
[2355.94 --> 2358.18]  It runs so hot sometimes.
[2359.16 --> 2368.90]  And, you know, if it's not properly aired and cooled, then, you know, basically your machine is not going to last very long.
[2368.90 --> 2373.58]  I love that it also has four Thunderbolt 3 ports, 10 gigabit Ethernet.
[2374.06 --> 2374.32]  Yeah.
[2374.32 --> 2380.00]  I believe it has two USB-A ports as well, which is awesome to see.
[2380.20 --> 2382.90]  The I.O. is just crazy cool.
[2383.70 --> 2389.02]  And like Adam said, the price of $799 to begin with is just wonderful.
[2389.56 --> 2392.68]  I was shocked to see them start at $799.
[2392.68 --> 2397.60]  Well, if we rewind a little, it did start before at $499.
[2398.00 --> 2398.08]  Right.
[2398.08 --> 2400.30]  So, that's kind of terrible on that front.
[2400.32 --> 2400.94]  It's kind of terrible.
[2401.02 --> 2402.02]  Well, $499.
[2402.04 --> 2403.72]  The difference on a starting price is kind of terrible.
[2404.00 --> 2404.44]  No, no, no.
[2404.44 --> 2405.40]  Let me point out some $200.
[2405.40 --> 2407.16]  $499 is the price that it is right now, though.
[2407.82 --> 2409.98]  Like, the old generation is $499.
[2411.56 --> 2412.04]  That's what I mean.
[2412.04 --> 2415.22]  Yeah, but when it was new, it didn't start at $499.
[2415.70 --> 2416.66]  I think it might have.
[2416.80 --> 2419.48]  I think it was at $499, and then it went up to maybe $699.
[2419.70 --> 2422.96]  I can't remember the exact history, but there was an entry level $499, because I remember
[2422.96 --> 2427.42]  thinking, get onto Mac OS, or back then it was OS X, for $500.
[2427.90 --> 2431.30]  That was kind of the sales pitch, in my mind, for a Mac Mini.
[2431.62 --> 2431.92]  Really?
[2432.46 --> 2432.82]  Yeah.
[2432.90 --> 2438.04]  Let me call out Apple a little bit here, because some of the stuff, I mean, this is exciting.
[2438.04 --> 2446.32]  I love that there's a new Mac Mini, you know, the specs are good, but the marketing speech,
[2446.50 --> 2451.64]  to me, rings a bit disingenuous, because they're like, it's five times faster.
[2451.98 --> 2454.68]  It's 60% faster integrated graphics.
[2454.88 --> 2460.74]  Like, all these numbers, which are amazing, like 5x performance boost, 60% better graphics,
[2460.74 --> 2467.76]  7.8x faster than the previous SSD, or the previous hard drive, or whatever.
[2468.04 --> 2468.52]  Yeah.
[2469.66 --> 2471.44]  These are easy numbers to hit.
[2471.54 --> 2475.80]  When you don't release an update for four years, you know?
[2476.14 --> 2477.28]  It's not that impressive.
[2477.50 --> 2478.26]  It is what they've done.
[2478.94 --> 2479.28]  Right.
[2479.40 --> 2481.34]  It's because they haven't updated the thing in four years.
[2481.40 --> 2483.30]  Of course, you're going to blow the previous one out of the water.
[2483.44 --> 2484.18]  It's four years old.
[2484.26 --> 2486.58]  Probably comparing spinning disk versus SSD, too.
[2487.12 --> 2488.06]  Yeah, in that case, definitely.
[2488.18 --> 2488.40]  Right.
[2488.40 --> 2494.80]  I mean, like, it's, you can swap out pretty much any run-of-the-mill spinning disk to SSD
[2494.80 --> 2496.14]  and get that performance.
[2497.00 --> 2497.40]  Right.
[2498.04 --> 2500.40]  It's not, I agree with you.
[2500.46 --> 2507.38]  Do you want to know how hard or easy it is to get to be a $4199 machine?
[2507.38 --> 2516.44]  Well, you add a 6-core 8th generation 3.2 processor, 64 gigs of RAM, 2 terabytes of SSD storage,
[2516.60 --> 2518.04]  and 10 gigabit Ethernet.
[2518.12 --> 2520.78]  That's how you get a $4,200 Mac Mini.
[2522.14 --> 2522.62]  Wow.
[2522.84 --> 2523.06]  Wow.
[2523.06 --> 2525.24]  The fact that you can't, it's great.
[2525.80 --> 2526.16]  Yeah.
[2526.16 --> 2529.04]  Because there's some who want that form factor, but very server.
[2530.38 --> 2530.74]  Right?
[2530.98 --> 2532.18]  That runs macOS.
[2532.18 --> 2533.78]  I think that's the one key thing here.
[2533.86 --> 2538.80]  This is the only kind of machine you can max out to that level and run macOS.
[2539.34 --> 2544.64]  Anything else out there, you got to go Linux or dare I say Windows.
[2544.64 --> 2547.92]  I mean, that's what gets me.
[2548.66 --> 2553.88]  When I run a machine in my house, I love Linux, but my familiarity is around macOS.
[2554.88 --> 2555.00]  Yeah.
[2555.28 --> 2559.30]  I can hack around Linux, but my preference is typically macOS.
[2559.30 --> 2562.28]  It's just the case for most cases for me.
[2563.36 --> 2567.58]  Now, let me ask you a question because this is the question that I wanted to ask you before.
[2568.52 --> 2571.44]  And let's see, I want to hear both of your opinions on this.
[2571.52 --> 2577.42]  So, I am sick of using my MacBook Pro as my main machine.
[2577.42 --> 2593.48]  I feel like after this day, after this announcement, I feel like I could do most of my work off of a Mac Mini and have a MacBook Air as my secondary machine for conference going and things like that.
[2593.56 --> 2599.56]  Would you agree with that based on the new specs that we learned from this new machine?
[2599.56 --> 2615.34]  I think what would hold me back would be on the video front for you in particular because you may not do video every day is your prior job, but or even your day-to-day habits.
[2615.86 --> 2618.26]  You know, the graphics is probably missing there.
[2618.46 --> 2620.56]  It's definitely not a video-friendly machine.
[2620.56 --> 2626.20]  So, I think once you get to that point, that's where a MacBook Pro or an iMac is better.
[2626.20 --> 2631.70]  And with an iMac, you get the screen built in, which shouldn't be frowned upon.
[2632.34 --> 2637.12]  And I'm not sure I would ever actually pay $4,200 for this machine.
[2637.56 --> 2638.84]  You'd have to be crazy.
[2640.26 --> 2641.74]  Well, you don't have to do that.
[2641.84 --> 2646.64]  What specifically is missing with the, I mean, you say it's not for video.
[2647.04 --> 2649.22]  Is it because the graphics card?
[2650.42 --> 2651.04]  Yeah, the GPU.
[2651.54 --> 2652.54]  You need that.
[2652.54 --> 2662.42]  You need a graphics card with, you know, I would say at least 4 gigs of GPU for decent video stuff.
[2663.10 --> 2664.20]  Anything that's in 4K.
[2664.40 --> 2669.88]  I mean, you're going to be dropping frames left and right and not very happy.
[2670.00 --> 2671.30]  The graphics is where it's missing.
[2672.98 --> 2673.54]  Dang.
[2674.10 --> 2674.92]  What's in there?
[2675.04 --> 2676.66]  It's just an Intel graphics card.
[2676.66 --> 2688.84]  Intel UHD graphics 630, which going back over to the Air is an Intel UHD graphics 617.
[2688.84 --> 2694.26]  I'm not sure the spec difference between those two besides maybe, you know, 13 numbers.
[2698.78 --> 2702.42]  It's barely 13 numbers better than the MacBook Air.
[2702.42 --> 2706.34]  Well, 617 and 630 is 13, so that's the difference there.
[2706.74 --> 2718.08]  I would just say that if you couldn't do it on an Air with that graphics, I can't imagine that the graphics card in the Mac Mini is so much better than that Air's graphics card.
[2718.16 --> 2728.84]  So if we're talking about video on a MacBook Air, it's probably a similar scenario where you can, but what you want to do is your daily driver is the thing.
[2728.84 --> 2732.86]  So you're talking about in the case of replacing the need for a MacBook Pro.
[2732.96 --> 2735.88]  I think it's still not there just based on that.
[2736.64 --> 2757.24]  Because when you go to, say, a fully specced out MacBook Pro, which I'm assuming you may or may not desire, is a Radeon Pro 560X with or 10 560 10, if you want to stay on brand with Apple, with 4 gigs of GDD R5 memory.
[2757.24 --> 2758.46]  So a big difference.
[2758.60 --> 2762.74]  Like that thing alone is going to handle all of your video performance.
[2762.92 --> 2765.46]  It's going to push your different displays.
[2765.98 --> 2769.48]  It's going to allow you to edit in 4K and not drop frames.
[2769.48 --> 2777.74]  And you still have the option to push your RAM and push your SSD and have four Thunderbolt 3 ports, not three or two.
[2778.06 --> 2779.52]  The I.O. is really interesting.
[2779.66 --> 2789.66]  I think this is a, the Mac Mini, in my opinion, is probably a good fit in server-like installations or people who don't do graphics that need server-like scenarios.
[2789.66 --> 2795.70]  Something that's pushing, say, a NAS or, you know, RAIDs or something like that.
[2795.80 --> 2799.36]  It's your networked, you know, Mac OS server locally.
[2799.94 --> 2801.86]  It's maybe commanding your Mini.
[2801.86 --> 2808.66]  Let's see, you have a scenario where you have, I don't know if Mac OS server is still a thing that you don't talk about it much.
[2808.70 --> 2809.84]  I think it is still there.
[2810.14 --> 2820.80]  But basically, like, you know, you have the idea of Active Directory in Windows where you have all the people on one machine and you manage the people in a local network via one machine.
[2820.90 --> 2822.24]  That's where this is going to thrive.
[2822.24 --> 2826.24]  And there's a lot of people who use it like that because you have a lot of Mac installs.
[2827.26 --> 2827.34]  Yeah.
[2827.42 --> 2833.94]  And as IT, you tend to have to go from machine to machine to machine, where in this case, you want to have a networked Mac server.
[2834.76 --> 2839.44]  And we've had to deal with a Mac Mini that wouldn't keep up.
[2839.44 --> 2843.06]  And you wouldn't want to buy a Mac Pro because maybe it's just too costly.
[2843.30 --> 2851.06]  So something in the middle there, I would imagine, where the Mac Mini fits in price point-wise and capability-wise is where you want to go.
[2852.24 --> 2855.90]  So the answer from Adam is no, because of video.
[2856.32 --> 2856.46]  Yeah.
[2856.78 --> 2857.82]  If you don't need video.
[2858.12 --> 2858.46]  Dang.
[2858.62 --> 2860.84]  Like, maybe you're there.
[2861.10 --> 2867.80]  If you're just audio, no video, maybe even lightweight Photoshop, occasional graphics manipulation.
[2868.42 --> 2879.68]  If you're doing anything where you're doing things in the cloud, because you're using it, that's essentially like Citrix back in the day, client server, server-based computing stuff.
[2879.68 --> 2887.76]  And if you're doing stuff in the cloud, then the Mac Mini would be a good option, you know, graphics-wise, for example.
[2887.76 --> 2892.74]  So you're saying if I give up video, the Mac Mini would be perfect?
[2893.70 --> 2895.66]  It would be adequate.
[2896.18 --> 2897.10]  I can't say perfect.
[2897.10 --> 2903.86]  Well, here's the other issue with the Mac Mini, which is that now you have to go out and find a display, right?
[2903.96 --> 2905.94]  Which with the Mac Pro, you're getting a display built in.
[2906.00 --> 2909.38]  With the iMac or iMac Pro, you have an Apple display built right in.
[2909.66 --> 2921.22]  There's no such thing as an Apple display right now, which we're all kind of hoping that they do that soon, especially with the, not the rumored Mac Pro, but the promised Mac Pro in 2019.
[2921.22 --> 2931.52]  I think they'll go back to, I would expect them to go back to building their own displays versus just saying use LG, which by the way, I have a third-party LG display.
[2932.14 --> 2936.12]  And it does not work very well with Mojave in terms of plugging and unplugging it.
[2936.20 --> 2937.66]  And it just sometimes doesn't get picked up.
[2938.12 --> 2941.32]  And I'm like, if this was just an Apple display, it would work 100% of the time.
[2941.32 --> 2950.54]  Which makes me also like a world where I have a desktop and a laptop and not a multipurpose laptop that I plug in and unplug because it doesn't always work.
[2950.66 --> 2952.12]  And it's a pain in the butt to do that.
[2952.48 --> 2953.98]  So I do like that world.
[2954.10 --> 2960.04]  I think I could probably live there as a developer because I'm not doing video processing.
[2960.04 --> 2969.58]  But obviously with ChangeLog and our media content that we're producing, I would not want to put myself into a corner of not being able to do video editing.
[2969.80 --> 2971.06]  And so I probably wouldn't do it either.
[2971.18 --> 2972.40]  But it's a very attractive option.
[2972.62 --> 2977.70]  A Mac Mini at the desk and a MacBook Air in your backpack.
[2977.96 --> 2979.02]  I think that's an awesome combo.
[2979.96 --> 2983.40]  I can say, though, that you don't have to shoot 4K.
[2983.40 --> 2988.88]  And when I say video, I usually caveat that with most video folks are like us.
[2988.94 --> 2989.86]  They're pushing the edge.
[2990.76 --> 2991.04]  Right.
[2991.14 --> 2994.00]  So I'm only the caveat there is 4K.
[2994.24 --> 3006.54]  Like if you're not shooting, editing in even 4K or 4K raw or some of these, you know, higher end, much more sizable resolutions and you're shooting HD.
[3007.28 --> 3007.76]  Yeah.
[3008.24 --> 3010.50]  Then you probably would get away with it.
[3010.54 --> 3011.16]  Just no problem.
[3011.16 --> 3023.68]  Well, the thing is, I'm usually shooting in 4K, then creating 720p proxies, editing those, then exporting back to 4K.
[3023.92 --> 3025.20]  Yeah, that's a pain in the butt.
[3027.70 --> 3028.46]  It is.
[3028.64 --> 3029.88]  I mean, it really is.
[3029.94 --> 3032.58]  Because now you get to manage proxies and it is painful.
[3033.30 --> 3037.58]  You know, because you still, you have the, you know, here's why it's painful.
[3037.92 --> 3039.02]  One, it's time consuming.
[3039.02 --> 3042.54]  It's a workflow thing that's usually a Tim thing.
[3042.76 --> 3045.94]  And if you invite somebody else into your workflow, now they got to adopt that as well.
[3046.00 --> 3047.26]  So that's just one piece.
[3047.82 --> 3050.24]  The other piece is the original size of the 4K.
[3050.24 --> 3057.60]  And then the smaller size, which isn't much, but still enough to add to the 4K size of a proxy file.
[3057.60 --> 3059.98]  And then file management.
[3060.58 --> 3062.74]  It just gets to be error prone.
[3064.58 --> 3065.40]  So much nicer.
[3065.48 --> 3069.52]  You could just pull up the 4K footage and just literally push the space bar and go.
[3069.94 --> 3070.42]  Yeah.
[3070.42 --> 3086.14]  I'm curious though, seven minutes ago, Corbin in our Apple Nerds chat room, he does something interesting around when it comes to developer isms with the Mac mini, where he's pushing a CI environment that's powered by GitLab.
[3086.14 --> 3093.38]  That is, he's using VirtualBox to run VMs for Windows and Linux.
[3093.38 --> 3097.20]  And then he's also got GitLab on the Mac OS.
[3097.30 --> 3103.18]  He's got three OSs he's doing continuous integration for, which I'm not really sure of his use cases.
[3103.32 --> 3107.58]  We do plan to do potentially a backstage on this.
[3107.58 --> 3122.78]  So he hasn't said it yet, but I want to earmark that because that is one interesting thing where this machine can be used by, say, developers in an environment where they need to do CI or anything that's debugging on several platforms.
[3123.24 --> 3131.34]  And potentially offer that to the other folks in their network to utilize for those needs.
[3131.34 --> 3138.56]  Worth noting that Apple also gave a shout out to people who are running Mac minis in servers.
[3138.72 --> 3142.00]  So they're very well aware that this is a thing that people are doing.
[3142.10 --> 3145.34]  What was the name of that company that 8,000 Mac minis racked?
[3146.22 --> 3147.62]  Yeah, Mac Stadium is the name.
[3148.06 --> 3149.22]  Mac Stadium, that was right.
[3149.22 --> 3150.62]  Mac Stadium, that was interesting.
[3150.90 --> 3152.56]  Very, very cool.
[3152.98 --> 3154.30]  And lots of different uses for developers.
[3154.30 --> 3159.60]  Like you said, CI, you could have a build farm, especially if you're building for iOS.
[3159.60 --> 3166.04]  You can offload your compiles and different Xcode things to Mac minis.
[3166.68 --> 3168.66]  Of course, there's live performances.
[3169.02 --> 3171.86]  You could use them for your home media server.
[3172.18 --> 3176.30]  Of course, the Apple TV and plus Plex may have rendered that.
[3176.56 --> 3177.92]  Of course, you could just run Plex.
[3178.02 --> 3179.54]  Can you run Plex on your Mac mini, Adam?
[3180.08 --> 3182.52]  Well, I mean, let's go back to the specs here.
[3182.58 --> 3185.68]  I think the answer is definitely getting closer to yes.
[3185.68 --> 3192.92]  I mean, I would say you'd probably want to max it out because Plex in a transcoding scenario.
[3193.40 --> 3194.74]  So just rewind a little bit.
[3194.84 --> 3201.08]  Plex is like a media server for your either home or business where you can do lots of interesting stuff.
[3201.12 --> 3202.78]  Let's just say that and cap it there.
[3202.86 --> 3207.66]  Go back and listen to a backstage near you to get the deeper details.
[3207.66 --> 3223.62]  But since you can bump to a 3.26 core processor, you're definitely going to get the transcoding you need from a native MKB file, which is a full res HD file, typically 20 to 30 gigs in size.
[3223.62 --> 3227.98]  Because you don't need much memory for Plex, really.
[3228.20 --> 3231.16]  You can get away with like 8 or 16 gigs of memory.
[3231.28 --> 3232.62]  The CPU is really where it's at.
[3232.76 --> 3241.16]  Most of the stuff that Plex does is CPU intensive, which is why an error would never work, but why, say, a bumped up Mac mini.
[3241.16 --> 3253.02]  So in this case, actually, if I were configuring Mac mini for Plex and I didn't care about, let's say, onboard storage, I knew I had external storage that was totally adequate.
[3253.16 --> 3257.30]  I could buy a $900 Plex machine as a Mac mini and be totally happy.
[3257.30 --> 3268.40]  That gives you 10 gigabit Ethernet, 128 gigs of storage, SSD storage, only thing that's offered, 8 gigs of RAM because you really don't need much.
[3269.00 --> 3269.80]  You don't need it.
[3269.90 --> 3272.66]  Sure, maybe you could bump the 16 at $200 at your price point.
[3273.02 --> 3273.82]  That's $1099.
[3276.24 --> 3277.48]  Actually, I made a mistake there.
[3278.10 --> 3281.44]  No, that's $1199.
[3281.56 --> 3283.48]  Sorry, $1199 for the six core model.
[3283.48 --> 3289.66]  Wouldn't you be able to do that exact same thing with eGPU?
[3291.52 --> 3293.02]  I can't confirm or deny.
[3293.52 --> 3294.72]  Like what you're talking about?
[3295.42 --> 3296.34]  Probably, yes.
[3296.50 --> 3297.26]  I don't know.
[3297.54 --> 3298.58]  I mean, I really don't.
[3298.90 --> 3308.02]  I've never attempted to look into eGPU for complex reasons, probably because of components, really, the complexity.
[3308.02 --> 3313.24]  You know, if you can get a machine that just bumps your CPU up one level, why get eGPU?
[3314.10 --> 3317.38]  I guess if you had an older machine you wanted to retrofit and use, maybe.
[3318.30 --> 3323.22]  Oh, because you have a Mac mini and you can't get a dedicated GPU on that thing.
[3323.42 --> 3324.38]  So you get an eGPU.
[3324.72 --> 3324.96]  Yeah.
[3325.06 --> 3325.42]  That's why.
[3325.60 --> 3326.30]  I guess so.
[3326.56 --> 3331.34]  I mean, okay, so let's keep it the lowest price point, which is, you know, $799.
[3331.34 --> 3335.58]  But you'd have to consider how much an eGPU would be on top of that.
[3335.84 --> 3336.22]  Sure.
[3336.42 --> 3343.24]  Why not just add $300 to your price point here, do $1199 and no external or extra thing?
[3344.22 --> 3346.08]  Because it's not, I don't think.
[3346.74 --> 3349.26]  $1199 and then buy not a Mac mini?
[3349.44 --> 3350.02]  Buy something else?
[3350.08 --> 3354.20]  No, buy a Mac mini at $1199 by just bumping only the CPU.
[3354.90 --> 3355.72]  Keeping everything based.
[3355.72 --> 3356.92]  You're not bumping the GPU, though.
[3357.58 --> 3357.84]  Right.
[3357.84 --> 3358.90]  They don't offer that.
[3358.90 --> 3360.64]  That's what I'm saying.
[3360.90 --> 3361.58]  Well, with eGPU, you get that.
[3361.64 --> 3362.32]  That's what Tim's saying.
[3362.50 --> 3366.16]  You can buy your own external GPU and attach it via Thunderbolt, right?
[3366.70 --> 3366.92]  Yeah.
[3368.22 --> 3368.54]  Yep.
[3368.88 --> 3370.14]  Boom goes a dynamite.
[3370.32 --> 3372.36]  Let's see how much atypical eGPU might cost.
[3372.36 --> 3374.60]  That actually solves my problem, too, possibly.
[3374.88 --> 3375.24]  Ooh.
[3376.16 --> 3381.86]  If you could get a Mac mini and you spec it out to, you know, wherever you want in terms
[3381.86 --> 3387.86]  of memory and solid state drives, then you get an external GPU, boom.
[3387.86 --> 3389.76]  You can edit 4K, no problem.
[3390.12 --> 3390.40]  Okay.
[3390.50 --> 3391.98]  So here's the add-on there, right?
[3392.06 --> 3398.14]  Is one, I'm just referencing because it's quick to Google and it's on Apple, so it's
[3398.14 --> 3398.88]  trusted at least.
[3399.04 --> 3400.70]  It's a trusted point to start at.
[3401.20 --> 3401.34]  Okay.
[3401.42 --> 3404.32]  You may be able to go lesser on price and smaller on size.
[3404.42 --> 3404.74]  I don't know.
[3404.80 --> 3405.44]  I haven't done the research.
[3405.44 --> 3412.14]  But a Blackmagic eGPU, which is a very trusted brand name in the video world, so when it comes
[3412.14 --> 3416.48]  to graphics and video performance, this is trusted, is $699.
[3416.48 --> 3426.74]  And it's like a little, you know, just based on the visuals, it seems like the older, what
[3426.74 --> 3432.90]  was the, the, the Wi-Fi tower looking thing Apple had before?
[3433.06 --> 3433.52]  Extreme.
[3433.94 --> 3434.30]  Oh, yeah.
[3434.50 --> 3434.84]  Airport Extreme.
[3434.84 --> 3436.38]  It seems very much like an Airport Extreme.
[3437.08 --> 3437.30]  Yeah.
[3437.30 --> 3445.10]  So if you can deal with one more plugged in device, $700, and this in particular eGPU,
[3445.24 --> 3449.70]  then sure, what Jared and you mentioned is, is, is great.
[3449.74 --> 3452.10]  Or you can just add 300 bucks and move on with your life.
[3452.78 --> 3455.06]  Well, the nice thing with a Mac Mini is you have options.
[3455.40 --> 3455.58]  Yeah.
[3455.74 --> 3457.82]  And that shows it right there.
[3457.94 --> 3459.14]  Maybe it's not for you.
[3459.20 --> 3461.52]  Maybe the pricing, you know, you go crunch the numbers.
[3461.60 --> 3464.28]  It doesn't make sense to do an eGPU for that use case.
[3464.28 --> 3467.08]  But the fact that you have options, there's so many ports in the back.
[3467.64 --> 3471.56]  And I think the biggest deal with this Mac Mini release is just the fact that it's not
[3471.56 --> 3473.06]  dead in the, dead in the water.
[3473.50 --> 3475.68]  And Apple is updating it once again.
[3475.80 --> 3477.30]  Hopefully they don't wait four more years.
[3477.54 --> 3479.68]  Hopefully just give us spec bumps every year.
[3479.80 --> 3482.30]  You don't have to have a big event for it, but just keep it updated.
[3483.04 --> 3486.04]  And there's lots of uses that we can go and use it for.
[3486.16 --> 3487.16]  So super exciting.
[3487.26 --> 3490.72]  Just the fact that we have a new Mac Mini, that's, that's big news.
[3491.20 --> 3494.26]  Going back to one more spec on this, which we covered.
[3494.28 --> 3496.62]  It's not very quickly is the thermo flow.
[3497.72 --> 3500.92]  I think what that's going to offer you is, is quietness.
[3501.34 --> 3507.18]  So when it, when it comes to whether or not it can kick it on your desk, as we say, right?
[3507.20 --> 3510.88]  Like you mentioned, Jared, your MacBook Pro still has trouble with Skype and several things
[3510.88 --> 3511.18]  happening.
[3511.28 --> 3513.70]  Your fans spin up for those reasons.
[3513.70 --> 3515.00]  That's why we typically don't.
[3515.00 --> 3515.54]  Google Hangouts.
[3515.68 --> 3516.38]  I hate you.
[3516.50 --> 3516.76]  Yeah.
[3516.76 --> 3524.38]  I mean, these are the things like I'm assuming it's part one of, of just necessary cooling,
[3524.38 --> 3530.24]  but the double airflow that it offers now, I would imagine cools it better and probably
[3530.24 --> 3534.46]  quieter than, you know, typically a MacBook Pro does.
[3534.46 --> 3540.28]  I'm just assuming that just based on the form factor and having Mac Minis currently that
[3540.28 --> 3541.76]  I can't even hear these things over here.
[3541.80 --> 3544.90]  I've got four over here that I can't even hear.
[3545.86 --> 3546.46]  Yeah.
[3546.84 --> 3548.22]  I agree with Jared.
[3548.22 --> 3555.10]  I think what, what I love the most of, of the Mac mini is, is the fact that it feels
[3555.10 --> 3557.12]  like obviously it's not dead.
[3557.52 --> 3561.44]  Hopefully they'll, they'll continue to update it and it gives you options.
[3561.44 --> 3566.72]  Um, because you know, the whole reason why I ask about this Mac mini as a good option as
[3566.72 --> 3572.72]  my primary desktop computer is because I, I just, I don't, I don't know how to justify
[3572.72 --> 3579.78]  the $8,000 of an iMac pro even, even, even with the work that I do.
[3579.78 --> 3585.92]  Um, so, so it, it, it just, it's nice to see that there may be other options that are
[3585.92 --> 3593.02]  more affordable, um, that, that would get you maybe not the same performance, but at least
[3593.02 --> 3596.82]  performance where you're not pulling your hair out in, in frustration.
[3597.46 --> 3597.56]  So.
[3597.56 --> 3605.40]  Well, I think on that front, um, you may be onto something, Tim, with the eGPU scenario,
[3605.40 --> 3614.00]  because I believe that those, those will begin to be more and more price competitive and
[3614.00 --> 3620.54]  not very uncommon as a add on to scenarios where you want to have more control.
[3620.54 --> 3624.40]  In this case, it's about control and less about retrofitting.
[3624.40 --> 3630.94]  Cause the reason why I think maybe the previous version of the Mac pro fell down was because
[3630.94 --> 3638.18]  it did not allow you to, uh, treat it as a componentized machine in a pro environment where
[3638.18 --> 3645.34]  you want to have control over CPU, GPU, RAM storage, and it just packaged all in one really
[3645.34 --> 3649.74]  beautiful design, but very little versatility when it came to expanding it.
[3649.74 --> 3650.22]  Yes.
[3650.62 --> 3655.44]  They gave you access to it, but it was the limitation on size.
[3655.44 --> 3659.82]  Like, whereas previous generations of Mac pros were like these gigantic boxes, you know,
[3659.84 --> 3661.20]  like the old school way, you know?
[3661.44 --> 3661.76]  Yeah.
[3662.24 --> 3666.26]  And there's people who literally will retrofit the old school boxes into the new school
[3666.26 --> 3669.68]  ways and like make these new Hackintosh Macintoshes.
[3669.78 --> 3670.66]  It's kind of funny.
[3671.10 --> 3672.46]  So you might be onto something.
[3672.46 --> 3676.62]  I would say that the price points on GPUs or eGPUs will get more and more competitive,
[3676.62 --> 3682.84]  especially as AI and machine learning, which is not a one-to-one, they will still be available
[3682.84 --> 3683.12]  to you.
[3683.16 --> 3687.42]  I'm assuming those are also similar where you can use them in a video environment and,
[3687.42 --> 3693.70]  and do what you're saying, which you get a Mac mini and, uh, go to a eGPU.
[3693.70 --> 3693.78]  Yeah.
[3694.98 --> 3695.26]  Yeah.
[3695.64 --> 3702.68]  Actually, um, looking here, it's, if we're using say a PCI version as a price point example,
[3702.68 --> 3710.88]  like, uh, an Nvidia is like a hundred bucks for a two gig external graphics card.
[3710.98 --> 3715.88]  So I'm, I'm, I'm sure they're taking that kind of technology and making it more accessible
[3715.88 --> 3717.54]  from the Thunderbolt three peripheral.
[3717.90 --> 3720.08]  Let's talk about this iPad pro.
[3720.08 --> 3726.96]  And can I just say it, the pencil attaches to the iPad pro with a magnet and it charges
[3726.96 --> 3727.68]  the pencil.
[3727.92 --> 3728.08]  Woo.
[3728.46 --> 3728.70]  We.
[3729.58 --> 3729.84]  Yeah.
[3729.90 --> 3730.34]  That's the highlight.
[3730.44 --> 3731.40]  That's my highlight right there.
[3731.52 --> 3733.56]  I was just like, that's so cool.
[3734.46 --> 3737.30]  I can tell you're really digging the attachment.
[3737.56 --> 3739.38]  Well, add to that.
[3739.48 --> 3741.86]  So it attaches magnetically.
[3742.10 --> 3742.54]  Right.
[3742.96 --> 3744.16]  And it wirelessly charges.
[3745.32 --> 3745.76]  Right.
[3745.90 --> 3746.66]  So it's always powered.
[3746.78 --> 3747.40]  That's amazing.
[3747.52 --> 3749.94]  I mean, leave it to Apple to go that far, right?
[3749.94 --> 3754.12]  That kind of detail is, is, is led by them.
[3754.22 --> 3754.36]  Sure.
[3754.42 --> 3755.04]  Others do it.
[3755.08 --> 3755.26]  Man.
[3755.32 --> 3757.88]  They, they think about all the user experience.
[3757.96 --> 3760.92]  So that's big in the, in part design and releases.
[3760.92 --> 3764.04]  Like, it's not just, Hey, this thing does this thing.
[3764.08 --> 3766.84]  It's this thing does this thing in these ways.
[3767.38 --> 3767.78]  Yeah.
[3767.78 --> 3770.56]  Remember the previous pencil, you had to plug it into the bottom.
[3770.56 --> 3770.96]  Right.
[3770.98 --> 3774.60]  And like a dead center bottom, it stuck out as all dorky and everybody would make fun
[3774.60 --> 3775.98]  of them for their bad design.
[3776.50 --> 3779.16]  And I just thought, yeah, I mean, it was meme worthy.
[3779.16 --> 3784.56]  That was dumb, but it was like, Hmm, maybe that was just a setup to make the magnet so
[3784.56 --> 3785.14]  much better.
[3785.14 --> 3787.86]  When we see it, we're like, Oh, now they solved it.
[3788.06 --> 3792.16]  Have you ever seen the comparison of the iMac iteration?
[3792.44 --> 3794.28]  As you know, I'm a huge fan of iteration.
[3794.54 --> 3795.36]  I say it all the time.
[3795.36 --> 3800.94]  Cause it's like people just see the generations of something that they see the final product.
[3800.94 --> 3804.16]  You know, let's say even the iPhone is not, it's a final product.
[3804.24 --> 3810.64]  You look at that versus gen one to now, like you would probably never buy gen one given
[3810.64 --> 3812.06]  what's available now.
[3812.06 --> 3812.38]  Right.
[3812.42 --> 3820.60]  But like it was a breakthrough and Apple is such a long tail player, iterative kind of
[3820.60 --> 3825.94]  embracer, so to speak, that the iMac began as a freaking TV.
[3825.94 --> 3829.52]  Basically a color TV that you can see into.
[3829.64 --> 3830.26]  And that was cool.
[3830.64 --> 3831.68]  It was cool.
[3831.76 --> 3833.62]  With, with huge bezels too.
[3833.72 --> 3838.72]  Huge bezels, many colors, you know, an amazing machine.
[3838.86 --> 3844.60]  I've actually seen several of them and you know, it's, it's uncommon these days to see
[3844.60 --> 3847.36]  the oldest school iMacs of anything.
[3847.36 --> 3847.76]  Right.
[3847.76 --> 3855.38]  But then you compare that to an iMac pro and you take the picture of the iMac generation
[3855.38 --> 3861.92]  from one and all the visual differences and changes from then to now.
[3861.96 --> 3865.52]  And you just see it basically get thinner and thinner and thinner, bigger and bigger and
[3865.52 --> 3866.04]  better and better.
[3866.66 --> 3868.50]  And that to me is like this pencil idea.
[3868.60 --> 3871.66]  You're like, you know, previous generations, they, they're like, you know what?
[3871.66 --> 3878.02]  Hey, we were releasing this, this today and we can already predict 2018 release in October.
[3878.32 --> 3880.60]  We know it's going to attach via magnetic.
[3880.74 --> 3884.92]  We know we're going to offer the wireless charging and we'll take one on the nose today,
[3884.92 --> 3891.92]  you know, from the pundits and the memes, you know, that's Apple's braveness and willingness
[3891.92 --> 3895.04]  to embrace that and take that and say nothing.
[3895.04 --> 3904.96]  I'm glad that they're also, you know, I don't think they've ever done the different colors
[3904.96 --> 3911.32]  with iPad pro, but I, I just feel, and I, I think we touched on this before with, with
[3911.32 --> 3916.30]  the MacBook air that the black bezel just looks so nice.
[3916.58 --> 3922.92]  And, and now that it's, you know, almost edge to edge, which, you know, we should quote,
[3922.92 --> 3925.30]  uh, Jared on this one, right?
[3925.52 --> 3928.56]  One with 100% less notch.
[3929.80 --> 3934.08]  It just, it just looks so nice and sleek and stylish.
[3936.12 --> 3937.14]  It looks spectacular.
[3937.28 --> 3938.50]  They've made it thinner.
[3938.74 --> 3942.46]  They've added this magnet based charging of the pencil.
[3942.56 --> 3944.02]  Of course, all the specs are upgraded.
[3944.44 --> 3946.54]  One thing was even a thousand times faster.
[3946.54 --> 3950.36]  And, you know, unlike the Mac mini where it's been four years and so it better be faster.
[3950.48 --> 3951.98]  This is from like last year's model.
[3951.98 --> 3954.08]  It was a very specific context.
[3954.24 --> 3958.04]  I can't remember what that was about, but it's like, come on a thousand times faster.
[3958.40 --> 3959.86]  The presenter even said that is nuts.
[3960.30 --> 3960.50]  Yeah.
[3960.60 --> 3963.18]  Cause it really is any sort of, uh, improvement like that.
[3963.48 --> 3965.16]  We got USB-C in the bottom.
[3965.82 --> 3969.62]  Uh, we've got face ID is 5.9 millimeters thin.
[3969.72 --> 3974.56]  I mean, you know, let's, let's address the elephant in the room, which Sir Tim Lee said,
[3974.60 --> 3979.02]  uh, during the event in our Apple nerds chat, you still can't do web dev on it.
[3979.02 --> 3983.26]  So from our developer perspective is potentially falling apart.
[3983.26 --> 3989.34]  But in, in this particular piece of hardware right now, unless you're doing, um, Swift playgrounds,
[3989.34 --> 3992.36]  but man, this thing is cool.
[3992.54 --> 3997.08]  I mean, it's just, uh, I was not ready to be impressed by an iPad pro release today.
[3997.08 --> 3998.54]  It was kind of an afterthought to me.
[3998.66 --> 4000.34]  I figured, yeah, they'd spec bump it.
[4000.54 --> 4001.38]  It'd be fine.
[4001.70 --> 4002.48]  It'd be the next iPad.
[4002.60 --> 4003.48]  I don't own an iPad.
[4003.48 --> 4004.28]  I've had an iPad.
[4004.48 --> 4009.28]  I gave it to my wife and moved on, but man, this thing is hot.
[4009.96 --> 4012.02]  I mean, I like the mention of the playground.
[4012.22 --> 4015.22]  So playground, because this is an $800 for playground machine.
[4015.40 --> 4016.92]  If you're just getting it for development.
[4018.42 --> 4018.86]  Yeah.
[4018.98 --> 4019.24]  Right.
[4019.30 --> 4024.76]  I mean, most businesses can afford that and would afford that and just hand them out.
[4024.80 --> 4026.08]  Like go learn Swift playground.
[4026.50 --> 4026.64]  Yeah.
[4026.64 --> 4027.24]  Go learn Swift.
[4027.24 --> 4028.50]  Yeah.
[4028.50 --> 4033.22]  But I think Swift playground is a playground enough that it's not going to take you the
[4033.22 --> 4035.72]  full length of where you need to be.
[4035.96 --> 4040.26]  I mean, until you can run Xcode on this and it's built to run Xcode, right?
[4040.38 --> 4040.72]  Yeah.
[4041.08 --> 4046.16]  You're not going to be doing development on this aside from introductory learning things
[4046.16 --> 4047.20]  like Swift playgrounds.
[4047.30 --> 4052.54]  So it's a starting point, but it's not, I mean, a Mac mini is a much better purchase at
[4052.54 --> 4053.40]  the same price point.
[4053.52 --> 4054.56]  So you're a developer, right?
[4054.56 --> 4054.76]  Jared?
[4055.76 --> 4056.16]  Correct.
[4056.32 --> 4056.58]  Okay.
[4056.58 --> 4056.64]  Okay.
[4057.24 --> 4058.74]  And you got excited by this?
[4060.94 --> 4061.82]  As a human.
[4062.02 --> 4062.56]  As a human.
[4063.28 --> 4065.52]  What about the developer side of you got you excited?
[4065.62 --> 4066.40]  Anything at all?
[4066.80 --> 4068.06]  That's my point is not really.
[4068.20 --> 4070.38]  No, I mean, no.
[4070.54 --> 4070.78]  AR?
[4072.92 --> 4073.32]  AR.
[4075.40 --> 4078.76]  Now we, we, we kind of laugh at that, but I made a note here.
[4078.76 --> 4083.20]  I've seen Spielberg use this AR stuff to create spaces.
[4083.44 --> 4087.14]  So like space creators, meaning people designing spaces, which they showed up with.
[4087.74 --> 4088.64]  With Adobe and whatnot.
[4088.64 --> 4094.12]  I think that's an area where we think it's only AR and gameplay in the future and all
[4094.12 --> 4094.82]  that stuff around that.
[4094.90 --> 4096.84]  It's kind of like, eh, not that much to me.
[4096.84 --> 4103.90]  But the way Spielberg used AR to jump in and into scenes for Ready Player One, because all
[4103.90 --> 4105.42]  those were CGI created.
[4105.42 --> 4111.84]  That's an area of developer that we cater to tangentially now, more so than we had before.
[4112.08 --> 4113.92]  I'm just curious of your thoughts on.
[4113.92 --> 4116.24]  I mean, AR definitely has potential.
[4116.52 --> 4123.60]  I think the only real valuable space for it in the kind of programming that I do is mostly
[4123.60 --> 4124.34]  web development.
[4124.92 --> 4130.70]  Shopify has done some interesting things with AR and enabling that for their customers
[4130.70 --> 4132.82]  to do, you know, e-commerce sales.
[4132.82 --> 4138.44]  I think it's a perfect pitch for that use case where it's like, here is a product, you
[4138.44 --> 4139.40]  know, it's a vase.
[4140.10 --> 4142.00]  I'm not sure how it will look on my table.
[4142.16 --> 4146.58]  Well, here is the AR, you know, a 5D rendering of that vase.
[4147.02 --> 4151.44]  You can now put that into real space and see what it looks like and then click buy and
[4151.44 --> 4152.16]  pay with Apple Pay.
[4152.30 --> 4153.28]  And it's a pretty cool demo.
[4153.72 --> 4158.62]  I think it's actually a very valuable use case for like getting sales, because if a customer
[4158.62 --> 4164.28]  doesn't have to be in a store, they can be on their iPad and can actually envision what
[4164.28 --> 4166.34]  this product will look like in the room they're sitting in.
[4166.44 --> 4168.22]  They're way more likely to buy it, right?
[4168.26 --> 4172.78]  As opposed to having to drive to Bed Bath & Beyond or I don't know where you buy vases.
[4174.20 --> 4174.88]  Some store.
[4174.98 --> 4176.16]  I believe it's pronounced Vaz.
[4176.58 --> 4177.48]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[4178.98 --> 4179.42]  Vazes.
[4180.84 --> 4183.54]  It's like four years and you guys are like, I believe it's a foyer.
[4183.82 --> 4185.00]  I'm like, not where I come from.
[4185.18 --> 4186.62]  I'm from real America.
[4186.92 --> 4189.06]  We just sound things out where I come from.
[4189.92 --> 4191.70]  I think I was the one who told you that.
[4192.20 --> 4193.28]  Yeah, that's true.
[4193.54 --> 4194.10]  In Portland.
[4195.04 --> 4195.94]  Yeah, in Portland.
[4196.12 --> 4199.32]  In Portland, I told you, it's foyer, not foyer.
[4200.00 --> 4202.48]  So we can see the sophisticated ones amongst us.
[4202.48 --> 4202.88]  That's right.
[4204.08 --> 4205.34]  Not the Nebraskans.
[4205.34 --> 4208.10]  Can I place Suze Hinton for a second, please?
[4209.86 --> 4210.56]  Can you place her?
[4210.72 --> 4215.44]  Meaning that she's the kind of person that goes on JS Party and has crazy ideas and shares
[4215.44 --> 4216.40]  them with the public.
[4217.14 --> 4217.56]  Oh, yes.
[4217.68 --> 4218.06]  Please do.
[4218.06 --> 4225.02]  And so I would say AR might be interesting if for the SVG creators out there where you
[4225.02 --> 4231.36]  can create an SVG on iPad Pro, potentially using interface driven type toggles because
[4231.36 --> 4235.52]  SVG is very much like a visual thing.
[4235.52 --> 4235.86]  Right.
[4235.86 --> 4240.56]  And use AR to step into your layered SVG.
[4240.68 --> 4242.50]  Like somebody who's doing some serious stuff.
[4243.32 --> 4243.88]  Right.
[4244.14 --> 4247.42]  There's been SVG games, SVG interactive stuff.
[4247.42 --> 4252.90]  And as we get into a world of, let's say, React Native and SVG doing some interesting stuff
[4252.90 --> 4260.30]  and all this graphic driven stuff that comes back into, say, storyboard or React Native or
[4260.30 --> 4261.06]  different things like that.
[4261.12 --> 4264.28]  Like that may be an interesting world where AR becomes a player.
[4265.32 --> 4267.98]  I'm just assuming or pontificating in this point.
[4267.98 --> 4269.50]  I don't know, really.
[4271.20 --> 4272.34]  What do you think?
[4273.70 --> 4275.44]  I would say potentially, yes.
[4275.76 --> 4276.12]  Potentially, yes.
[4276.58 --> 4276.80]  Yeah.
[4277.36 --> 4277.64]  Yeah.
[4277.92 --> 4278.52]  Nothing.
[4279.06 --> 4283.08]  There's almost nothing so far of AR that really impresses me.
[4283.16 --> 4288.18]  So I feel I don't feel adequate to to respond to that.
[4288.26 --> 4294.14]  I think that the only the only real thing that involved AR that I thought was really cool
[4294.14 --> 4301.34]  and that felt useful to me so far in the demos that Apple has done was I think for WWDC,
[4301.34 --> 4309.12]  they invited someone on with like an app that allows you to monitor your shooting in basketball.
[4310.28 --> 4312.20]  That that I thought was pretty cool.
[4312.32 --> 4315.46]  But so far, a lot of the demos just feel really gimmicky to me.
[4318.18 --> 4320.62]  I think a technology looking for problems.
[4320.82 --> 4322.72]  And I think the problems will arise.
[4322.72 --> 4327.50]  Like, you know, saying like a solution looking for problems or whatever that saying is.
[4327.78 --> 4327.86]  Yeah.
[4327.98 --> 4330.62]  And a lot of it is like, look at this cool technology.
[4330.62 --> 4335.42]  But it's I think it's a scenario where you need the technology to lead the way versus
[4335.42 --> 4338.50]  the problems lead the way and to get people's ideas going.
[4338.60 --> 4340.98]  I think give it three to five years.
[4340.98 --> 4344.08]  I think we'll see some killer apps for AR right now.
[4344.16 --> 4349.54]  Like the most killer thing we've seen is, you know, Snapchat filters and Instagram stories.
[4349.54 --> 4352.54]  Like draw a dog on your face kind of stuff.
[4352.60 --> 4354.60]  That's basically that.
[4354.60 --> 4355.20]  And gaming.
[4355.32 --> 4359.66]  I haven't seen any games that have really taken the world by storm besides, I guess, Pokemon Go,
[4360.20 --> 4362.92]  where they put the, you know, the Pokemon out there on your screen.
[4363.58 --> 4365.72]  That's basically what we've gotten so far.
[4365.72 --> 4370.40]  But I do believe that there's actually, you know, there's going to be that thing.
[4370.46 --> 4371.22]  It's just not here yet.
[4372.18 --> 4374.18]  There's a could be economy out there, actually.
[4374.52 --> 4381.10]  You know, if you can create on an iPad Pro and sell what you create on an iPad Pro, like,
[4381.32 --> 4382.72]  let's say, filters or whatever.
[4382.84 --> 4387.46]  If that was a sellable market, you know, you can.
[4387.46 --> 4395.58]  And I'm going to just assume that you can probably easily make 50K to 100K a year as an iPad Pro creator of some sort.
[4396.18 --> 4396.98]  I quit.
[4397.46 --> 4397.74]  Right.
[4397.82 --> 4399.04]  I mean, I'm going to go do that.
[4399.96 --> 4403.32]  And that's a respect of living for people who didn't have that.
[4403.40 --> 4406.58]  I think it's less about like it's a lot of money and more like it's accessible.
[4408.00 --> 4408.44]  Right.
[4408.44 --> 4413.72]  Because like starting at 800 bucks and thinking outside the box far enough.
[4414.00 --> 4427.18]  And let's say you can be a sticker creator, a digital sticker creator for, say, messages or a watch face creator for Apple Watch simply on an iPad Pro.
[4427.18 --> 4450.20]  If that's possible ever because of, you know, taking all the interesting things that the iPad promised and now the reason why you have the Pro added onto it is the necessary Pro features like, you know, the cores and the speed and, you know, USB-C, whatever the Pro moniker adds to it to creators who visually create.
[4450.62 --> 4456.36]  Then, you know, it's what Tim said, which was it's like, I know who said that Phil Schiller.
[4456.36 --> 4459.34]  It's like a computer, but unlike any computer.
[4460.52 --> 4464.68]  You got to say Tim Cook, man, because I think you're talking about me.
[4466.90 --> 4468.94]  Oh, like, wait, what did I say?
[4469.02 --> 4469.40]  Tim Cook.
[4469.50 --> 4471.50]  I thought it was Tim Cook, but it was Phil Schiller.
[4471.84 --> 4474.80]  He says it's like a computer, but unlike any computer.
[4475.38 --> 4479.68]  And that was in that sales video, which Apple was the master of sales videos in my opinion.
[4479.82 --> 4484.84]  There's no company better out there that can like create a video that one is super cool.
[4484.84 --> 4486.70]  You probably watch it two or three times.
[4487.26 --> 4490.54]  And then it also makes you say, take my money.
[4491.66 --> 4496.16]  Well, this is something I said for the MacBook Air in our in our doc.
[4496.24 --> 4499.36]  I said the the the MacBook Air video is peak Apple.
[4499.46 --> 4504.64]  It's it's basically just the product breakdown, but it's beautifully art directed.
[4504.64 --> 4506.74]  And that really goes for all of these videos.
[4506.74 --> 4507.74]  Mm hmm.
[4508.10 --> 4511.22]  There's one mention here for developers we can't forget is gaming.
[4511.68 --> 4512.24]  Right.
[4512.30 --> 4512.90]  They showed up.
[4512.96 --> 4524.94]  They did a demo, which I think was more towards less about here's how awesome this game is and more how awesome the devices as it relates to the display.
[4524.94 --> 4525.70]  Sure.
[4525.70 --> 4531.50]  And its abilities to do this massively, you know, visually detailed game.
[4531.80 --> 4537.44]  Jared, you said something where you said if if this had a first party controller.
[4538.44 --> 4538.92]  Yeah.
[4538.98 --> 4539.84]  Gaming would be better.
[4539.92 --> 4540.84]  What did you mean by that?
[4540.86 --> 4542.96]  Because like we all know developers of gaming.
[4543.08 --> 4549.56]  Most developers, a lot of developers come from a gaming background because they that was their first entrance into tinkering.
[4549.56 --> 4560.00]  Yeah, I mean, I myself am a maybe a retired gamer as I have too many children to game anymore.
[4560.10 --> 4566.96]  Actually, it's not true about my my boys love playing games with me, but I have less time, free time, disposable time as I used to.
[4567.00 --> 4570.28]  I used to game all day, every day back in the day, the good old days.
[4570.28 --> 4592.88]  Yeah, I mean, so there's a certain class of games that work well on mobile and these are cinematic, you know, kind of explorative games, some strategy games, anything where you can, you know, point and move slowly a object through space.
[4592.88 --> 4603.00]  Right. Or just like straight up word games like the the typical, I don't know, non deep, shallow, enjoyable, fun games, kind of like popcorn games.
[4603.40 --> 4605.54]  Those are all fine, but serious gaming.
[4605.68 --> 4611.20]  And specifically, there's when I thought of it was the demo they were showing today was like an NBA.
[4611.86 --> 4614.14]  I don't know what the name of the game was, like 2K something, something.
[4614.42 --> 4620.38]  But it's basically like, you know, you're playing as LeBron James and, you know, basketball is a fast game.
[4620.38 --> 4631.46]  This is a fast twitch kind of game where you're directing a player around and you're hitting, you like to be hitting buttons to like invoke certain moves, dribbling between the legs, a spin move, like when to shoot.
[4632.20 --> 4639.20]  And a touch device is never going to be a good interaction for a fast twitch game like that.
[4639.34 --> 4639.46]  No.
[4639.60 --> 4642.72]  Similar with shooters, anything where it's fast twitch.
[4643.04 --> 4646.56]  You do not want a touch device.
[4646.56 --> 4655.52]  So because of that, I think it's very much limited the types of games that are on iOS and on Android to the kind of games I'm describing.
[4655.72 --> 4657.26]  Plus, you know, a few others I'm not thinking of.
[4657.32 --> 4661.66]  But these are not the just I don't know what people call them, hardcore games.
[4661.70 --> 4671.12]  I'm not sure what the title is, but a game like that is not going to be fun on an iPad, no matter how fast it can render it or how many frames per second.
[4671.12 --> 4674.52]  You know, how smooth it is and how much that actually looks like LeBron James.
[4674.68 --> 4678.98]  It's not going to be fun unless you have a gaming controller.
[4679.44 --> 4679.70]  You know?
[4679.90 --> 4680.06]  Yeah.
[4680.28 --> 4694.84]  This is why the consoles or maybe have a full on keypad in the case of, you know, a Call of Duty or a style game or a Fortnite where you want to have the full on WASD controls like all these buttons.
[4694.98 --> 4695.18]  Right.
[4695.86 --> 4697.96]  Zero buttons is not the right number of buttons.
[4697.96 --> 4705.12]  I have an earwrap, believe they're missing out and it could be something that you go, oh, my gosh.
[4705.40 --> 4705.88]  What I said.
[4706.68 --> 4707.12]  Okay.
[4707.40 --> 4708.36]  Now I'm getting excited.
[4708.54 --> 4709.02]  Let's see.
[4709.20 --> 4711.78]  So we're familiar with the Nintendo Switch, right?
[4712.96 --> 4713.32]  Okay.
[4713.52 --> 4714.46]  I'm very familiar.
[4714.70 --> 4715.02]  Okay.
[4715.22 --> 4718.40]  And we can kind of agree that a lot of kids love that.
[4718.40 --> 4726.14]  I think it's been sold out every time I've ever thought about even just looking at it for as a gift, not even for me.
[4726.14 --> 4727.14]  Okay.
[4727.30 --> 4729.80]  Price point is 300 bucks, right?
[4729.80 --> 4729.96]  Okay.
[4729.96 --> 4732.58]  But if you break down the iPad Pro, it's $799.
[4732.58 --> 4741.52]  But it's so many things in one that if you start to divide what it is for a future creative, it can be so many things in one.
[4741.64 --> 4745.36]  So it could be a much better version of Nintendo Switch.
[4746.00 --> 4746.40]  Right.
[4746.40 --> 4760.64]  If you can just take what is really the thing with the Switch, if I can understand correctly, is like you can take the Switch, drop it off on something, and suddenly it becomes the powerhouse of a bigger display.
[4761.26 --> 4765.36]  Then you can remove it from that and take it with you and attach the controllers to it.
[4765.36 --> 4769.54]  And then now it's a personal gameplay that's networked.
[4769.86 --> 4771.06]  That's the iPad Pro.
[4772.42 --> 4774.56]  The display is phenomenal.
[4774.96 --> 4776.40]  It's got USB-C.
[4776.98 --> 4778.14]  So that's fast.
[4778.20 --> 4778.88]  It's next gen.
[4778.98 --> 4779.82]  It's future gen.
[4779.82 --> 4786.58]  You know, in terms of the next hookup point, you got the pencil, you got all the necessary graphics in it.
[4786.84 --> 4789.72]  You got the gaming store.
[4789.84 --> 4792.68]  You got, you know, all these things that Apple's already got.
[4792.74 --> 4796.32]  Like, if you ask me, they're missing out on stealing Nintendo's lunch.
[4796.64 --> 4798.34]  Like, literally stealing it.
[4799.52 --> 4800.80]  That's just an assumption, though.
[4801.00 --> 4801.58]  Just an assumption.
[4802.20 --> 4802.58]  I missed it.
[4802.60 --> 4804.54]  Did you say a first-party controller?
[4804.78 --> 4806.38]  Did you include that in there?
[4806.38 --> 4807.94]  I just think you have to assume that.
[4808.10 --> 4810.36]  Like, I think Apple's missing out by not.
[4810.52 --> 4811.06]  And maybe.
[4811.64 --> 4812.14]  Well, absolutely.
[4812.44 --> 4815.98]  Maybe there's something behind the scenes where eventually they buy Nintendo.
[4816.94 --> 4822.52]  And eventually, you know, Nintendo Switch becomes an app, not a platform, inside of iPad Pro.
[4823.92 --> 4825.80]  I don't see that future.
[4826.80 --> 4827.82]  I don't think Nintendo will sell.
[4828.44 --> 4832.98]  But, I mean, I think this was a huge missing point with the Apple TV as a gaming platform.
[4832.98 --> 4836.02]  Because they said, you can bring your own controller.
[4836.02 --> 4841.42]  Like, no one's ever going to build a game that requires a remote on a platform that doesn't require a remote.
[4841.68 --> 4845.38]  Like, you need a first-party official, in-the-box remote.
[4845.92 --> 4847.46]  Not even, like, an accessory.
[4847.88 --> 4848.76]  I don't know about that.
[4849.06 --> 4850.32]  I do know about that.
[4850.62 --> 4851.70]  I'm pretty sure about that.
[4851.72 --> 4857.44]  If the accessory is affordable, I mean, most gaming systems come with one.
[4858.32 --> 4858.58]  Yeah.
[4858.86 --> 4859.04]  Right?
[4859.24 --> 4861.26]  I think that's, I think one is table stakes.
[4861.42 --> 4861.70]  Right.
[4861.76 --> 4861.94]  Yeah.
[4861.94 --> 4862.26]  Okay.
[4862.36 --> 4863.94]  So, give me one at least, which they do.
[4864.12 --> 4868.76]  They give you the one that does most things, the game part of it, not so well.
[4869.00 --> 4871.50]  Hey, I could play CrossFit Red all day on the typical.
[4871.70 --> 4873.00]  That's not a video game remote.
[4873.56 --> 4874.78]  It's a remote, though.
[4874.78 --> 4875.60]  So, we got you.
[4875.72 --> 4876.38]  That is not a gaming controller.
[4876.38 --> 4876.68]  Gotcha.
[4876.92 --> 4878.38]  No, because that is not a gaming controller.
[4878.38 --> 4878.82]  I'm holding us around.
[4878.92 --> 4879.34]  I agree.
[4879.34 --> 4880.42]  I do agree.
[4880.68 --> 4891.40]  I think if they could just take it one little further and say, not only is it this, but you can buy, maybe, say, the game version of it or add it in the process of buying an Apple TV.
[4891.76 --> 4897.60]  Like, maybe it's not default in every one of them, but when you buy it, similar to a computer, you can bump up the CPU or RAM.
[4897.96 --> 4901.00]  You can bump up the peripherals that they add to it, and it is first party.
[4901.20 --> 4901.36]  I agree.
[4901.36 --> 4905.98]  If they did a controller first party, they can own the gaming world.
[4906.20 --> 4907.32]  It's a great display.
[4907.44 --> 4908.52]  It's great graphics.
[4908.98 --> 4910.98]  Why not push into gaming there?
[4911.94 --> 4913.16]  Maybe they're just not ready yet.
[4913.52 --> 4915.78]  Maybe they're playing the long game, and eventually they'll get there.
[4916.16 --> 4916.68]  For now, they're missing.
[4916.68 --> 4920.02]  I don't know if they care so much.
[4920.48 --> 4921.98]  My other thought is maybe they—
[4921.98 --> 4922.02]  Esports?
[4922.38 --> 4923.70]  It's a billion-dollar industry.
[4924.40 --> 4926.06]  Well, they're already the biggest company in the world.
[4926.14 --> 4927.36]  They're doing pretty well with hardware, but—
[4928.04 --> 4930.48]  I mean, it's not a—
[4930.48 --> 4931.66]  Oh, yeah, you're seeing Apple.
[4931.90 --> 4933.12]  I was thinking you said Esports.
[4933.62 --> 4934.40]  No, I'm thinking about Apple.
[4934.56 --> 4935.74]  No, I agree.
[4935.82 --> 4936.36]  It's huge.
[4936.74 --> 4943.72]  I just think Apple is the hugest, and we all talk about focus amongst the things that we try to do, so maybe it's a focus thing.
[4944.02 --> 4944.20]  Yeah.
[4944.20 --> 4953.94]  Maybe I think they might have blinders, and they might think that what they're doing is already good enough because look how great iOS is as a gaming.
[4954.14 --> 4960.40]  All the top apps are games, and so much gaming is happening and all these things that I think they're kind of—
[4960.40 --> 4960.54]  Right.
[4960.54 --> 4969.64]  Maybe ignoring the more immersive, interactive, deep, you know, harder core games because they think they're doing all right.
[4969.70 --> 4970.02]  I don't know.
[4970.02 --> 4986.30]  I would like to think that it's a focus thing because I feel that that's when Apple is at its best, when it focuses on things that it can do really well, and it does a lot of those things already.
[4986.30 --> 4994.02]  I wanted to talk also about some of the other features that were very appealing to me of the iPad Pro.
[4994.02 --> 5004.02]  Not so much from a developer standpoint because, like we've already said, you know, there's not a ton on the developer end that maybe is exciting.
[5004.90 --> 5013.26]  I don't know if that's the word necessarily, but as a writer, oh my goodness, iPad Pro is pretty exciting.
[5013.26 --> 5024.92]  I mean, I can do a lot of writing on the go, and their new, like, smart keyboard folio thankfully covers the backside of the freaking iPad.
[5025.48 --> 5030.34]  I don't know why that wasn't a thing with their last generation of iPad.
[5030.90 --> 5032.60]  I'm glad that it's now a thing.
[5032.60 --> 5043.30]  It's got two new angles, which is pretty cool depending on whether it's on your lap or on the table, and I find that particularly important.
[5043.60 --> 5055.26]  I'm a man of substance, as some like to say, so having something on my lap is not the easiest thing for me, but I think the new angles might help a little bit with that.
[5055.26 --> 5064.28]  Also, USB-C for me was a big feature because it now allows me to connect my camera directly to the iPad.
[5065.24 --> 5081.72]  So, you know, like with a trip that I just took to London, for example, for Sustain, I can just hook up my camera directly to the iPad, import my pictures, edit them on the iPad, you know, in VSCO or whatever other editing app that you may like, and then post them.
[5082.18 --> 5083.72]  I mean, that's so awesome.
[5083.72 --> 5085.46]  I'm so excited for that.
[5086.16 --> 5093.62]  And also like the charging capabilities of USB-C is really fun so that I can charge my iPhone on the go.
[5093.84 --> 5097.92]  So anyway, those were some of my highlights of the iPad Pro.
[5101.06 --> 5102.58]  So let's close with this.
[5102.64 --> 5109.52]  We've had three big new purchasable products announced today.
[5109.52 --> 5117.74]  We've had the all new MacBook Air, the all new Mac Mini, and an all new iPad Pro.
[5118.44 --> 5123.94]  Hypothetically, you can only buy one of these three devices, but you have to buy one.
[5124.30 --> 5125.40]  So you can't say no.
[5125.64 --> 5126.46]  You have to buy something.
[5126.96 --> 5127.72]  But you can't buy all three.
[5127.80 --> 5128.40]  You have to buy just one.
[5128.40 --> 5130.90]  Which one do we buy?
[5132.14 --> 5134.58]  And which two do we leave at the store?
[5135.24 --> 5139.48]  When you say we, are you saying we or are you saying individual needs?
[5140.64 --> 5143.84]  I'm saying you, Adam, and then you, Tim, and then me, Jared.
[5144.14 --> 5144.44]  Yes.
[5144.44 --> 5145.26]  Which one are you going to buy?
[5145.36 --> 5146.06]  Who's going first?
[5148.00 --> 5150.24]  Well, I'll go first because mine's a pretty easy decision.
[5150.24 --> 5156.86]  And I'm getting the iPad Pro because I don't have one and it looks really fun.
[5159.30 --> 5160.42]  The Mac Mini is awesome.
[5160.68 --> 5164.86]  I already have a pretty new laptop, so I'm not going to upgrade my laptop anytime soon.
[5165.20 --> 5168.94]  I may eventually get a Mac Mini for kind of a home server situation because I'm using
[5168.94 --> 5172.18]  a previous laptop as a server, which is not ideal.
[5172.24 --> 5173.78]  And I think it's probably not going to last.
[5173.92 --> 5175.54]  So the Mac Mini would be my second.
[5175.54 --> 5181.44]  And I have a pretty new MacBook Pro, so I'm not on the prowl for a new laptop.
[5181.76 --> 5183.62]  But I am iPad-less.
[5183.92 --> 5185.86]  This iPad Pro looks spectacular.
[5186.84 --> 5188.30]  And I would buy it.
[5190.96 --> 5191.64]  There you go.
[5192.98 --> 5196.14]  Tim, you're trying to buy all three of these.
[5197.24 --> 5197.46]  Yeah.
[5197.98 --> 5201.52]  Well, yeah, that's a hard question for me.
[5201.52 --> 5212.32]  Because I feel that, to me, this whole announcement day was Apple listening to what it is that I
[5212.32 --> 5213.26]  feel like people want.
[5213.46 --> 5216.98]  But I think I'm going to go iPad Pro, too.
[5217.94 --> 5224.24]  Because we've talked a little bit about my different needs here at Changelog and what I
[5224.24 --> 5225.54]  need out of a machine.
[5225.64 --> 5229.48]  And I'm not 100% sure that I could do with a Mac Mini yet.
[5229.48 --> 5234.66]  But I think a MacBook Air for traveling would be amazing.
[5235.46 --> 5237.64]  But yeah, I'm going iPad Pro, too.
[5237.82 --> 5238.80]  It looks awesome.
[5239.54 --> 5242.98]  And it's wonderful.
[5243.28 --> 5244.70]  It looks so beautiful.
[5244.94 --> 5248.64]  And the USB-C features, to me, are really cool, too.
[5249.04 --> 5251.12]  So what about you, Adam?
[5252.86 --> 5254.72]  I'm going countercultural, man.
[5256.30 --> 5257.64]  Doesn't surprise me.
[5257.64 --> 5258.06]  All right.
[5259.48 --> 5260.52]  None of the above.
[5262.22 --> 5262.66]  What?
[5263.26 --> 5264.46]  Yeah, I'm going to resist.
[5265.00 --> 5265.78]  You got to pick one.
[5266.06 --> 5266.92]  You're breaking the rule, man.
[5267.02 --> 5267.32]  Okay.
[5267.42 --> 5268.20]  I have to.
[5268.42 --> 5268.96]  I have to.
[5268.98 --> 5269.78]  That was the rule.
[5269.86 --> 5270.46]  You got to pick one.
[5271.28 --> 5273.90]  Barring no rule, I would go with none of the above.
[5274.12 --> 5277.94]  Because need is not true in this case.
[5278.20 --> 5280.28]  Want, however, is true.
[5280.28 --> 5285.24]  And I would say the Mac Mini.
[5285.24 --> 5291.28]  Because it has so many more uses for the things I could need it for.
[5291.28 --> 5300.60]  I think that it's obviously, for all the reasons we've already talked about, it's amazing for developer stuff.
[5300.60 --> 5308.10]  But I think for a home server, where you're building out more of a smart home, which is sort of a hobby for me, you know.
[5308.10 --> 5310.92]  But future backstage content.
[5310.92 --> 5314.06]  So it's kind of like one of the both, in a sense.
[5314.06 --> 5318.06]  That's where I would probably go with the Mac Mini.
[5319.06 --> 5325.04]  Because the MacBook Air, while it's amazing, I already have a MacBook Pro.
[5325.38 --> 5328.26]  And I'm more of a pro user than an Air user.
[5328.42 --> 5333.76]  Although I can admit where the Air would shine and where the Pro would shine a little bit brighter.
[5333.76 --> 5336.62]  And I'm not sure how marginal that little brighter is.
[5337.24 --> 5338.68]  For use cases I have.
[5339.70 --> 5340.62]  I'd say Mac Mini.
[5343.22 --> 5344.76]  And it would be rack-a-modded.
[5345.96 --> 5347.56]  And it would be 10 gigabit.
[5348.84 --> 5352.62]  I'm not really sure about the memory or the storage.
[5353.20 --> 5357.54]  I'd probably bump the CPU just because, like, if you're going to get a machine that can.
[5358.36 --> 5360.48]  And it's just a small jump on the price point.
[5360.94 --> 5362.60]  That's where you should push it for sure.
[5363.76 --> 5366.16]  Especially in the case of potentially Plex.
[5366.68 --> 5368.02]  So that would be really it.
[5369.78 --> 5379.78]  And then I would also, after I bought the Mac Mini, I would then go and change from Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 rate arrays.
[5380.04 --> 5383.50]  Because currently we're using Thunderbolt 2, which, as we know, is a little slower.
[5384.18 --> 5385.62]  Thunderbolt 3 is so much faster.
[5386.68 --> 5393.08]  I would probably then go and bump up some of the rate arrays we have from Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3.
[5393.76 --> 5396.88]  And maybe even go from 2 to 1 rate array.
[5400.18 --> 5400.62]  Yeah.
[5401.32 --> 5401.72]  Interesting.
[5402.70 --> 5405.04]  Less around need and more around future friendly.
[5405.90 --> 5406.30]  Right.
[5406.42 --> 5407.94]  You know, because it'd just be so much faster.
[5407.94 --> 5426.32]  We talked about in our editorial meeting yesterday about the needs for you all, you and Jared and other members of the team, to have access to the archives, the infamous changelog archives, which have been so well kept over all the years.
[5426.32 --> 5432.24]  We literally have every podcast probably we've ever produced as an archive.
[5432.24 --> 5436.28]  We can go back to literally episode number one and remaster them all.
[5436.42 --> 5448.34]  So if you want to be a future lover of us, we have some things coming in store that you may be able to power the future remastered archives of the changelog.
[5448.34 --> 5455.24]  Because we're going to have this Mac mini in place because Jared's just making me buy it, of course.
[5455.56 --> 5467.30]  And we'll have three, of course, and rate, of course, that we'll have some networked ability for Jared, Tim, and others to be able to access that archive.
[5467.30 --> 5474.88]  In its original form, right here from the changelog headquarters here in Houston, Texas, which is not really a headquarters.
[5475.16 --> 5477.34]  It's a data headquarters, if anything, you know.
[5477.42 --> 5479.62]  Why don't you just put it on like S3 or something?
[5480.48 --> 5482.24]  That would take way forever, bro.
[5483.70 --> 5484.00]  Why?
[5484.20 --> 5485.00]  Like way forever.
[5485.16 --> 5493.98]  I mean, we're talking about like at a minimum, most of an individual show's archive is one, at least potentially several gigs.
[5494.86 --> 5495.12]  So?
[5495.12 --> 5498.80]  Like, we're talking about, it just took me.
[5498.92 --> 5499.40]  You have a fast upload.
[5499.58 --> 5503.34]  Bro, I just moved 9.25 terabytes across the network.
[5503.48 --> 5504.60]  It took 15 hours.
[5505.22 --> 5505.48]  Yeah.
[5505.48 --> 5508.08]  It would be one big backup first.
[5508.26 --> 5510.00]  I mean, have you ever done back plays or whatever?
[5510.18 --> 5511.46]  It's like 30 days.
[5511.58 --> 5515.26]  And then you don't need to have a central Houston headquarters.
[5515.38 --> 5516.62]  You just have a cloud.
[5516.98 --> 5517.30]  I do.
[5517.40 --> 5518.96]  I have a fiber connection range to AWS.
[5519.80 --> 5520.00]  Yeah.
[5520.04 --> 5521.52]  So upload that stuff to AWS.
[5521.80 --> 5522.72]  We don't have that.
[5522.84 --> 5523.42]  It would be cool.
[5523.42 --> 5526.70]  I don't think it's, if somebody knows more about this.
[5526.70 --> 5529.08]  I don't see why you would ever want to have to hold that on your own network.
[5529.28 --> 5530.88]  Like, that's just such a liability there.
[5531.06 --> 5531.64]  I like it.
[5531.88 --> 5532.60]  I like the liability.
[5532.92 --> 5533.02]  Yeah.
[5533.02 --> 5533.88]  But your house burns down.
[5533.94 --> 5534.38]  You're screwed.
[5534.50 --> 5535.20]  It's not going to burn down.
[5536.00 --> 5536.40]  Okay.
[5537.82 --> 5539.38]  That sounds like a good game plan.
[5539.74 --> 5539.90]  No.
[5539.98 --> 5540.80]  It won't burn down.
[5540.80 --> 5544.50]  If it doesn't exist in three places, it doesn't exist.
[5544.62 --> 5548.00]  And one of those places has to be not geographically local.
[5548.74 --> 5554.30]  If we had a fiber store somewhere or fiber access to something externally, and it would
[5554.30 --> 5558.62]  take maybe two days to get a, even then, I mean, this is a whole different subject.
[5558.72 --> 5562.38]  We're talking about disaster recovery, which is such a deep topic.
[5562.38 --> 5565.12]  And one that I'm somewhat familiar with.
[5565.48 --> 5566.28]  I don't think it's feasible.
[5566.28 --> 5570.06]  We can go backstage on this, but it's super easy for you to just get that onto a cloud.
[5570.18 --> 5572.00]  And then you're just additive at that point.
[5572.06 --> 5573.00]  You're just adding new episodes.
[5573.16 --> 5575.50]  You don't ever have to do that 10 terabytes again.
[5576.00 --> 5577.44]  But you can pull it down whenever you want.
[5578.50 --> 5579.92]  So, look into it.
[5579.96 --> 5580.84]  We can backstage that.
[5580.84 --> 5586.90]  But let's wrap this one up as we've switched topics away from Apple hardware to why you
[5586.90 --> 5587.72]  need to be in the cloud.
[5588.46 --> 5589.10]  That's right.
[5590.66 --> 5591.28]  All right.
[5591.46 --> 5594.52]  Well, let us know what you think of this episode.
[5594.70 --> 5599.18]  Of course, next time Apple has an event, if y'all like this, we will continue to do this.
[5599.28 --> 5601.32]  We like to nerd out about these things and more.
[5601.60 --> 5601.82]  We do.
[5601.92 --> 5602.88]  Come nerd out with us.
[5602.88 --> 5607.54]  Not just about Apple stuff, but about all things software, open source, developer.
[5607.54 --> 5609.30]  You know, the kind of stuff that we talk about.
[5609.30 --> 5610.90]  ChangeLog.com slash community.
[5611.84 --> 5615.92]  If you're listening to this on the spotlight feed, which is ChangeLog.com slash spotlight,
[5616.34 --> 5617.80]  realize that we have a master feed.
[5617.88 --> 5619.12]  That's where you can get all of our shows.
[5619.24 --> 5623.12]  If you like this show, if you like any of our shows, you will probably like all of our
[5623.12 --> 5623.38]  shows.
[5623.78 --> 5626.48]  So definitely check out ChangeLog.com slash master.
[5626.82 --> 5627.44]  It's nice.
[5627.50 --> 5632.08]  You can remove all those ChangeLog subscriptions out of your podcast app and just put one in your
[5632.08 --> 5633.84]  podcast app and get all of our shows.
[5634.50 --> 5635.98]  I mean, that's almost too good to be true right there.
[5635.98 --> 5637.50]  So check that out.
[5637.90 --> 5638.92]  Closing thoughts, guys.
[5639.46 --> 5641.04]  One feed to rule them all.
[5641.64 --> 5642.32]  Nothing for me.
[5642.48 --> 5643.38]  That's my clothing thought.
[5643.66 --> 5643.96]  One feed.
[5643.96 --> 5645.18]  ChangeLog.com slash master.
[5645.18 --> 5646.64]  Thank you.