Effectiveness of qat on gguf sizes

#2
by GiusTex - opened

Thanks for the new model version! Heretic qat Q4_0 gguf looks like a fine addition.
Don't mind my list of changed titles, I wrote this post and then searched for info while waiting for an answer, and as I updated the post I kept finding new info...

Quick question, about the "qat" part in Q4_K_M and Q8: google wrote (https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-4-12B-it-qat-q4_0-unquantized) that qat works on Q4_0, as you did (Quantization-aware training was calibrated specifically for the Q4_0 grid, so Q4_0 is the quant that realizes the QAT advantage), but then you proceeded creating qat_Q4_K_M and qat_Q8, so I wondered: have you found them useful? Like, different from your heretic_Q4_K_M and heretic_Q8 that do not have the qat implementation

GiusTex changed discussion title from Adding more size versions to Qat works only on specific gguf sizes?
GiusTex changed discussion title from Qat works only on specific gguf sizes? to Does qat work only on specific gguf sizes?
GiusTex changed discussion title from Does qat work only on specific gguf sizes? to Effectiveness of qat on gguf sizes
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edited Jun 7

Thanks for the new model version! Heretic qat Q4_0 gguf looks like a fine addition.
Don't mind my list of changed titles, I wrote this post and then searched for info while waiting for an answer, and as I updated the post I kept finding new info...

Quick question, about the "qat" part in Q4_K_M and Q8: google wrote (https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-4-12B-it-qat-q4_0-unquantized) that qat works on Q4_0, as you did (Quantization-aware training was calibrated specifically for the Q4_0 grid, so Q4_0 is the quant that realizes the QAT advantage), but then you proceeded creating qat_Q4_K_M and qat_Q8, so I wondered: have you found them useful? Like, different from your heretic_Q4_K_M and heretic_Q8 that do not have the qat implementation

Thanks! Glad it's useful!

so use Q4_0 to actually get the QAT benefit, Q8_0 for near-lossless, and Q4_K_M as a solid general 4-bit option that isn't really leveraging QAT

Q4_K_M uses a different (K-quant) scheme than the Q4_0 grid QAT was tuned for, so the advantage doesn't cleanly transfer
most of its quality comes from the K-quant scheme itself. It might be marginally better than a non-QAT Q4_K_M since QAT weights tend to be a bit more quantization-friendly, but I wouldn't expect a large gap.

Uploaded mainly as a drop-in for folks who standardize on Q4_K_M.

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